Western leaders Speakers say both fields can be improved by more innovation and technology.

Park City Utah Gov. Gary Herbert asked western governors and guest experts the same question Saturday about public education and health care: how can states afford their increasing costs?

He received the same answer for both: Totally reform the systems, because business as usual is too expensive. Experts, by the way, said that could also improve quality.

"We cant be doing the same old, same old and expect different and better results," Herbert, the outgoing chairman of the Western Governors Association, said in an interview after the groups convention held sessions on health care and education.

For example, he said, "A teacher could have gone to sleep 100 years ago, come back 100 years later and felt very comfortable in the classroom because nothing has changed."

But students have changed, with more not speaking English at home, or wanting to use computers and the Internet to learn. Also, millions of adults started college but never finished, and need help the current system lacks.

Herbert said reforms to consider include more competency-based testing to allow students to skip classes on what they already know, spend more time on what they need to learn and possibly graduate quicker. More use of the Internet and technology could cut need for extra buildings and stretch the reach of teachers, and allow instructors to offer more individualized coaching.

"We need to be more innovative," Herbert said.

Mike Leavitt, former U.S. Health and Human Services secretary and former Utah governor, gave governors the same message about health care as they try to figure out how to cover higher costs as the federal Affordable Care Act kicks in.

He likened their situation to a mythical city that had used taxis to provide transportation, but could no longer afford that as the population increased but tax revenues did not. "So it invented buses," to carry more people cheaper, if not necessarily as conveniently, he said.

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Guvs talk education, health care