Swiss Cows Won’t Lawyer Up: Voters Nix State-Funded Lawyers for Animals | Discoblog

Swiss_CowBetween the beautiful scenery and legally mandated good treatment, animals have it pretty good in Switzerland. They could have had it even better, but over the weekend the country’s people decided that the country’s animals didn’t need their own state-funded lawyers.

Yes, Switzerland is so animal-friendly that this question actually came to a vote. The courts in Zurich already have a representative, Antoine Goetschel, who is responsible for taking up the cases of cats and horses and sheep. And this weekend the Swiss voted on a referendum that would have expanded this system to cover the entire nation. However, 70 percent of people voted no.

It seems that worries over costs to taxpayers, as well as the objections from farmers, convinced the Swiss that their existing animal rights laws were good enough. From BBC News:

Switzerland already has some of the strictest animal welfare legislation in the world.

Pigs, budgies, goldfish and other social animals cannot be kept alone; horses and cows must have regular exercise outside in summer and winter; and dog owners have to take training courses to learn how to care for their pets.

And let’s not forget that the Alpine nation recently mandated that researchers who want to work with genetically engineered plants must first explain to an ethics panel why the work won’t destroy the plants’ dignity.

Related Content:
80beats: University, Fearing Animal Rights Violence, Axes Baboon Study
80beats: After a Firebombing, “Pro-Test” Rallies in Support of Animal Research
80beats: Great Apes Have the Right to Life and Liberty, Spain Say

Image: Wikimedia Commons / Chris Hartford


Air Video, the Best iPhone Video Streamer $3 Can Buy [Lifechanger]

Media streamers aren't exactly new, but there's another entrant to the field that works so simply and easily it should be nearly mandatory for any iPhone user. It's called Air Video—and it's only three bucks.

Here's the scenario: I've got a NAS with about a terabyte or so of video sitting on my network. Some torrented files, a lot of DVD rips I made myself, a fair amount of random Xvid and MKV files I've kept for years, and quite a few h.264 MPGs that I encoded of my own work.

Now, getting videos to an iPhone is relatively easy—if you want to convert them to h.264. Toss the file into Handbrake, fiddle with a few settings, and copy the converted file into iTunes to be synced to your iPhone.

Problem is, you've got to wait for the video to be converted. Then wait for it to copy to your phone. Then hope you have enough space to store it. Then delete it when you're done.

The natural solution, of course, is streaming. And several nice applications have been written that make that possible, including Orb and (which will also stream live TV if your PC has a tuner), Tversity (which can also stream to Xbox, PS3, and even DirecTV boxes). But Orb is $10; TVersity Pro is $40.

Air Video is $3. And it's so dead simple to set up that I didn't quite believe it had actually worked.

I downloaded the Air Video server software to my first-generation unibody MacBook Pro, pointed it at a local folder full of video, and activated it. (It's also available for Windows.) Then I opened up the Air Video iPhone app to find a simple directory listing. Within about three minutes from first discovering Air Video I was watching a 720p episode of a television program on my iPhone, streaming over my local Wi-Fi network.

Then I pointed the Air Video server at my NAS, suspecting that something would snag. My laptop wouldn't have the CPU power to convert the video in time. My 801.11N network would get clogged. But nope—Air Video happily chugged away, sending a real-time stream of my videos right to my phone.

I even tried watching a 13GB 1080p rip from the NAS. (Of a Blu-ray I own, thank you very much.) It worked—mostly. Air Video lost the stream occasionally, pushing the stream back in chunks as it rebuffered. Considering my laptop chokes on that file even when it's sitting on its own hard disk, I am not surprised.

Perhaps it shouldn't impress me as much as it does, but it completely changed the way I think about my media library and my iPhone. I already sleep with my iPhone at my side. And when the iPad arrives, I suspect it'll be on the nightstand, too. Now every movie or television show I have sitting around will be ready to watch in just about ten seconds.

Air Video manages to be both extremely simple to use, while extremely powerful for the settings tweaker.

If a video is encoded in h.264, a format which the iPhone can play natively, Air Video simply streams it. If not, you can "Play with Live Conversion", which uses the ffmpeg library on your Mac or PC to convert the file in real-time. (Provided your machine is fast enough. Most newer computers should be able to handle that just fine.) You can also tell Air Video to do a permanent conversion of the file to a h.264, although the real-time streaming works so well I can't imagine you'd find the need to do so very often.

There are tons of conversion settings that can be fiddled with, as well as different bit rates for streaming. But the default settings and guesstimates made by Air Video work so well, I haven't yet felt the need to touch them.

You can even stream outside your network if you turn on the "experimental" Remote setting. Air Video will generate a ten-digit PIN that you punch into the iPhone app which allows it to communicate with the Air Video server even when you're away from your home network. (I suspect it is doing some sort of simple DNS-like passing of your external IP to the company's servers, although I have not investigated this.) The takeaway is that you can watch all your movies even away from home, even over 3G. Again, this isn't a brand new idea, but to have it all work so effortlessly in a $3 app is. (There is also a free version that won't display all your files at once that works perfectly, should you want to test it first.)

I've been toying with the idea of selling my HDTV for a while. I use it, but could live without it. I've barely been playing console games at all over the last few months, using the TV mostly as a giant monitor connected to a Mac Mini that serves as a home theater PC. I'd been considering replacing it with an iPad, as silly as that might seem, simply because I live alone and rarely watch movies and such with guests.

I don't know if I'll sell the TV and the Mac Mini or not, but Air Video has made me realize that if I wanted to, I could get the same functionality on an iPad. I'll never be without my video library again. Not bad for three bucks. [iTunes]


Restraing Slope for Differential Relays

Hi,

do anybody know that how can I set restraint slope for AREVA MICOM P642 and P643 Differantial Relays? We protect the power transformer. I will be very happy, if anybody can send me a setting file for AREVA MICOM Differential relay.

Thank for your attention.

Best wishes

A nutritional approach to the treatment of HIV infection—same old woo?

I get all sorts of mail. I get mail from whining Scientologists, suffering patients, angry quacks—and I get lots of promotional material. I get letters from publishers wanting me to review books, letters from pseudo-bloggers wanting me to plug their advertiblog—really, just about anything you can imagine.

Most of the time I just hit “delete”; it’s obvious that they’ve never read my blog and they’re just casting a wide net for some link love. But a recent email from a PR firm piqued my interest: (it’s a long letter, and I won’t be offended if you simply reference it rather than read the whole thing now):

Hi Dr. Lipson,

My name is N. and I am reaching out to you on behalf of Dr. Jon Kaiser, an esteemed HIV/AIDS and nutrition specialist who specializes in supporting immune system function with nutrition.

I recently read your blog post titled “Will Congress Finally Reform Supplement Laws” and thought you might be interested in Dr. Jon Kaiser’s perspective on the role of nutritional supplementation in medicine.

Dr. Kaiser is well-known in the global AIDS/HIV community.  In the 1980’s, Kaiser pioneered the use of nutritional supplements in HIV/AIDS patients to help them build stronger immune systems; his research showed that conventional drug treatments were more effective if the patient’s immune system were strong.  Today, many AIDS and HIV patients around the world follow this treatment paradigm.

As a physician, Dr. Kaiser is well-known in the global AIDS/HIV community.  In the 1980’s, Kaiser pioneered the use of nutritional supplements in HIV/AIDS patients to help them build stronger immune systems; his research showed that conventional drug treatments were more effective if the patient’s immune system were strong.  Today, many AIDS and HIV patients around the world follow this treatment paradigm.  Building upon his success in HIV patients, Dr. Kaiser is applying the lessons learnt in HIV to patients with cancer, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and other chronic diseases, general health and the elderly.

Dr. Kaiser is very passionate about advocating nutritional supplementation and views it integral to successful disease and general health management.   He would more than like to share and engage in a discussion about the supplements and the impact of the proposed reforms to supplement laws.

I’ve included more information on Dr. Kaiser and K-PAX and I have pasted links to a 2001 double-blind, placebo-controlled study funded by Bristol-Myers Squibb that demonstrated an increase in the number of CD4 lymphocytes in HIV-infected patients who were taking Dr. Kaiser’s natural immune support formula compared to patients taking a placebo (in addition to standard HIV medications). This formula has been refined over 15 years and is now in clinical trials with the goal of receiving FDA approval.  If successful, Dr. Kaiser will be one of the first nutritional suppliers to gain FDA approval for  the use of a nutritional supplement as an adjunctive therapy for disease management.

I’ve never heard of Kaiser, and the only K-PAX is know is home to Prot. So I looked it all up.

Before I assume anything about a doctor, I always check to make sure they’re really a doctor.  Jon Kaiser is an M.D. in northern California. He graduated from a real medical school where he apparently performed well.  According to the state medical board, his license is current and he has no official actions against him. He has reported to the state board that he is not board certified in any specialty, but claims non-boarded specialty status in internal medicine and infectious disease. He reported to the board and listed on his CV that he has one year of post-graduate training.  I’m not sure how one can claim to be an internist without specialty training, but he does.

To specialize in internal medicine requires three years post-graduate training, and to specialize in infectious diseases generally requires an additional 1-3 years of post-graduate training. It’s not unheard of for older HIV specialists to not have formal infectious disease training—many of them were internists who invented the field of HIV medicine out of necessity when the epidemic first appeared. But to practice internal medicine or infectious disease with only one year of post-graduate training (an internship probably) is very, very unusual.  My state currently requires completion of two years of post-graduate training in a certified program, although since two year programs are vanishingly rare, most licensed physicians will have at least three years.   In the old days, a doctor could finish an internship and hang up a shingle as a family doc.   But even back in the 80s, internal medicine had become far too complex to rely on just an internship.  Hell, my dad graduated from medical school in 1949 and even then internists were expected to compete a full residency program.

This doesn’t mean Kaiser isn’t a good doctor, but it raises the bar on any claims he makes.  If I know that someone is a boarded internist and infectious disease specialist, and is published in her fields of specialty, I’m likely to require a bit less as far as proving his or her credibility. Someone who completed a brief course of post-graduate training and declares themselves to be an expert will require a lot more to convince me of their expert status.

Most HIV specialists are infectious disease specialists first, and if they belong to a professional organization it is usually the IDSA or the HIVMA. His CV lists him as a member of the American Academy of HIV Medicine.  I’m not familiar with their work, but their website has some useful information. Included is a verification engine to see if a doctor is a member: Kaiser  is not listed on their verification site. He lists himself as being on multiple boards, so I’m assuming this is a glitch in the system.  He also lists himself as a founding member of the California Academy of HIV Medicine, an organization I cannot yet find on the web.  I asked his publicist about this and this was Dr. Kaiser’s response:

As a founding member of the American Academy of HIV Medicine, I was intimately involved in setting policy objectives for the organization in its early development phase beginning in 2000. I formed the Academy’s Reimbursement Committee in 2000, and was quoted in the attached AAHIVM newsletter (see middle column, paragraph #2). I have also been certified as an HIV Specialist by the organization on two separate occasions (see attached). It appears my membership to the national organization and California chapter inadvertently lapsed when I moved offices. This has been corrected and my membership is now currently active.

Well, I guess that explains the discrepancy between his CV and the professional organization he claims membership and leadership experience in.  Unfortunately they didn’t find me a link to the CAAHIVM.  Perhaps they don’t have a website.

Anyway, I was curious about the publicist’s claim that Kaiser is a major player in the HIV community, so I did a PubMed search. It turned up three references.  I guess one can be a respected HIV clinician rather than a researcher, and that would certainly not show up in PubMed.  But that leads to another problem.

Kaiser bills himself as “combining the best of natural and standard therapies” for HIV disease.  I have no reason to doubt this, but since his approach is unorthodox and he isn’t an active researcher I’m not sure how he knows that his treatment is so good.  He does claim some pretty spectacular results:

Though long term stability in my patients has always been the rule, I can now definitely say that the progression of HIV disease in my practice is an extremely rare event. This experience, which has encompassed the care of over 500 HIV(+) patients during the past five years, allows me to make the following statements: Not one patient who has come to me during the past six years with a CD4 count of greater than 300 cells/mm3 has progressed to below that level. Not one patient who has come to me during the past six years with a CD4 count of greater than 50 cells/mm3 has become seriously ill or died from an HIV-related illness. This extraordinary level of good health and stability does not come without hard work. My patients follow an aggressive program of natural therapies to support their immune systems. They have also benefited tremendously from the new drugs, lab tests, and other recently released treatment options. What a difference a few years has made!

That seems pretty impressive to me, for a few reasons. In many circumstances, someone who has gathered this much favorable data would have published it.  Without seeing the data in a peer-reviewed journal, there’s no way to verify the validity of these claims, or the reason for them.  If the data are accurate, perhaps he attracts a very medically-adherent population.  At many of the HIV centers I’m familiar with, patients often have financial, social, and psychiatric barriers to care, and results aren’t so rosy.  So what’s this guy’s secret?  Does he have a really, really compliant set of patients, or is he doing something different, something not yet well-represented in the HIV literature?

According to him, the secret is his “comprehensive” approach:

I define a comprehensive approach as one which adds a program of aggressive natural therapies and emotional healing techniques to the standard medical treatment of an illness or condition. An aggressive natural therapies program includes a combination of diet therapy, vitamins, herbs, exercise, and stress reduction. Emotional healing encompasses a proactive program of psychological healing techniques that ideally includes a spiritually-oriented practice (prayer, meditation, yoga, etc.) combined with a significant level of social support.

That’s a bold statement.  He claims extraordinary results, and claims that a raft of disproved therapies are the answer. If, as he claims, this approach is especially beneficial to those who cannot tolerate proven therapy with anti-retroviral drugs, he really should be working off data, data that show that his approach is safe and effective.
And that brings us back to the original letter from his publicist.  In the letter, they claim that K-PAX (the supplement, not the planet) significantly increased CD4 counts compared to placebo in patients taking usual therapy.
Whether CD4 cell count is a useful measure in this setting is debatable.  Viral load is an important measure of HIV activity, and CD4 count varies from moment to moment.  Also, above a certain level, it’s not clear that CD4 cell count is a marker of clinical risk.  Important outcomes other than CD4 cell count and viral load include prevention of opportunistic infection.
In Kaiser’s study, published as a “rapid communication”, he measured many parameters in addition to CD4 count.  This was a very small study (40 patients) with a very brief follow up period (12 weeks).  In the results section, the author notes that there were differences in the characteristics between the test and control groups, and that these differences were not statistically significant:

(1) the micronutrient group had a lower CD4 count at baseline when compared with the placebo group (CD4: 357 ± 154 cells/?L vs. 467 ± 262 cells/?L, P = 0.13), (2) the participants in the micronutrient treatment group reported a greater number of months of neuropathy symptoms preceding enrollment than those in the control group (means: 21.4 months vs. 12.2 months, P = 0.14; medians: 14.2 months vs. 2.5 months), and (3) the micronutrient treatment group contained 3 patients with diabetes mellitus compared with zero in the placebo group (P = 0.09).

It is technically correct that most of these differences were not statistically significant, but, look at the results:

The mean absolute CD4 count increased significantly by an average of 65 cells in the micronutrient group versus a 6-cell decline in the placebo group at 12 weeks (P = 0.029)

CD4 counts vary quite a bit, and are an imperfect measure of disease activity and immune function.  As we can see from his groups, there was a very large range of CD4 counts in each group at the start.  An average change in CD4 count of 65 seems anemic at best. Kaiser is more optimistic:

This study demonstrates that a micronutrient supplement administered to HIV-infected patients taking stable HAART significantly enhances CD4 lymphocyte reconstitution. Our findings support the potential for a broad-spectrum micronutrient supplement to be used as adjuvant therapy in combination with HAART to provide patients with a more robust CD4 cell rebound after initiating antiretroviral treatment.

I find the data from this pilot study entirely unconvincing.  His conclusions are hyperbolic and premature.  That’s not unusual, though.  Researchers sometimes get a bit excited about their work, and as an inexperienced author, perhaps he can be forgiven for a little unrestrained enthusiasm.
But it gets a bit more interesting that that.  In a letter to the editor, a careful reader noted something unusual. A patient showed him a brochure claiming that K-PAX could raise CD4 counts by 26%.  K-PAX, it seems, is the same product used in Kaiser’s study. The writer was concerned:

Most disturbingly, the first author on the paper, Jon D. Kaiser, MD, seems to be the same person mentioned in the brochure as the developer of K-Pax Vitamins.

[...]

Given the recent controversies at other medical journals about the failure of authors to disclose potential conflicts of interest, I am sure that this article would not have been published without disclosure (or at all) if the Editors had been aware of the conflicts of interest in this case.

There is a long, sordid history of conflicts of interest in published research.  Some drug companies have gone so far as to print their own faux-journals containing only favorable studies.  That is why most journals have strict disclosure rules for conflicts of interest. A study being sponsored by a drug manufacturer does not invalidate it, but failure to disclose this connection is unethical and problematic on many levels.
Kaiser was (correctly) allowed to respond:

After reporting the improved immune reconstitution of patients taking the micronutrients plus highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) to the Bristol-Myers Squibb team, I anticipated that they would show interest in pursuing the development of a therapy that had the potential to act as a safe and beneficial immune modulator.

On learning that they had no interest in pursuing the development of this compound, I chose to form a company, K-PAX, Inc., to keep the micronutrient supplement in production and make it available for sale while I worked to get the study results published.

I neglected to inform the Editors of this journal of this conflict of interest and any potential bias that existed during the paper’s submission and publication process. Nor did I inform the other authors on the paper of my financial interest in the company. They received no personal compensation for their efforts.

In other words, he is the guy who makes and sells K-PAX, and he owned up to failing to disclose this profound conflict of interest. I asked Kaiser through his publicist about this. His response was less conciliatory:

This research study was performed before there ever was a company or financial interest in a product (2001-2003). The data were analyzed by an independent Data Analysis Firm selected by Bristol-Myers Squibb in 2001. The JAIDS editorial board performed a thorough evaluation after Dr. Smith raised his concerns and found no evidence that either the data analysis or study conclusions were inaccurate.

I’m unimpressed by this response.
As I’ve said many times in this space, being wrong is not a moral failing—being deceptive is.  Many doctors who offer unproven therapies are genuine in their beliefs that they are doing good.  This doesn’t change the fact that promoting unproved treatments is a bad thing.  A doctor should know better than to use hyperbolic language to convince HIV patients that he somehow has the answer to their disease, an answer that no other specialist has.  Of course, most doctors have a lot more formal training that Dr. Kaiser, so perhaps he can be forgiven for his hyperbolic promotion of a single pilot study as a major breakthrough in HIV treatment.
Right?


[Slashdot]
[Digg]
[Reddit]
[del.icio.us]
[Facebook]
[Technorati]
[Google]
[StumbleUpon]

Am I a Geek Dad? | Bad Astronomy

Am I a Geek Dad? Well, I’m a geek, and a dad.

But in this case, I’m talking about the cool website Geek Dad. To celebrate their third anniversary they’re opening up voting for their Geek Dad Awards, with categories like Best Actor/Actress, Best Gadget, and so on.

Geekdad bannerOf particular interest to me are the categories of Best Social Media Star and Best Geek Celebrity (overall). That’s because, for some reason, they put me on those lists.

Now, I love Geek Dad, don’t get me wrong! But I’m up against folks like My Close Personal Friend Adam Savage™ and My Not Quite As Close But Still A Friend Felicia Day, so my odds of winning are smaller than the gap between the time a tribble is born and when it gets pregnant.

See what I did there? Yeah, I deserve to win a geek award, but I’m guessing it won’t be this one given the competition. And worse, Fwhil Fwheaton is in both categories, and I can’t in good conscience ask you to vote for me thousands of times at the expense of my mancrush. No-names like Neil Gaimon and J. J. Abrams, sure. But Wil?

So if you care to, go to Geek Dad and vote your own conscience. And I won’t ask the couple of folks I know at GD to send me the lists of IP addresses of the voters so that I can exact my revenge as necessary. Seriously. I won’t. At all.

But hurry! Voting ends at 8:00 p.m. EST on March 14th. If I win, I’ll give everyone who voted for me a unicorn*.


*But not really.


Sarsfield Pleads Guilty

Ex-NASA Official Pleads Guilty in Contracts Case, WS Journal

"A former high-ranking National Aeronautics and Space Administration official pleaded guilty in Mississippi to designing contracts that netted him more than $270,000 in illegal profits. Liam P. Sarsfield is a former chief deputy engineer in Washington, D.C. ... Mr. Sarsfield will be sentenced June 24. He pleaded guilty to one charge of acts affecting a personal financial interest."

Boeing 747 Survives a Simulated Underwear Bomb Blast [Bombs]

The attempted bombing of Flight 253 last Christmas was thwarted by passengers, thankfully. But what if he had been able to get the bomb detonated? Not what you'd expect, actually. Updated: There's some clarification regarding the pressurization on the plane.

The BBC did a test on an old decomissioned 747, putting a dummy with the same type and amount of explosives found on the underwear bomber. As you can see in the above video, the flexibility of the outside of the frame allowed it to absorb the blast. If the bomb had gone off, the plane would have still been able to fly and land.

Of course, the damage inside the plane still would have been horrific. But it's nice to know that the trusty 747 can stand up to such abuse. [BBC via PopSci]

Update: Just like Gizmodo's readers, BBC's readers questioned how accurate this experiment was since it took place on the ground and not in the air, with the plane's cabin pressurized. Here's the clarification BBC added as a result:

Some readers have questioned the validity of the experiment given that the plane was tested on the ground. The programme-makers gave this response:

At the time of the attempted detonation, Flight 253 was descending rapidly and its altitude has been estimated to be around 10,000ft.

At that height the difference in pressure inside and outside the plane would not have been great enough significantly to affect the explosion.

So the explosion team ruled that the decommissioned plane's lack of doors was not a factor in the test.
With this quantity of explosive, the peak pressure and impulse are over quickly and decay rapidly over distance. The doors were sufficiently far away that the overpressure would have dissipated before it reached them.


1994 Vauxhall Astra – Electrical Problem

I have a 1994 Vauxhall Astra which despite being well past the UK government's 'scrap by' date has only done 73,000 miles and is a clean and normally reliable car.

This morning it developed a fault however. Whenever I go much past 30 mph the alternator warning light starts flic

What Do You Want To Know About Energy? | The Intersection

As I get started writing about energy, I’m interested to get a sense of what readers are most interested to discuss…

Picture 9Wind?
Solar?
Hydrogen Fuel Cells?
Cellulosic Biofuels?
Nuclear?
Oil?
Algae?
Tidal Power?
Corn Ethanol?
Coal?
Fossil Fuels?
Natural Gas?
Offshore Drilling?
The relationship to climate change?
The economy?
Jobs?
Water?

The list could go on and on, so let’s start a thread of your questions and get the ball rolling… Which technologies do you think hold the most promise?


Current Transforrmer Connection

Dear Friends.

Hope, u all are well and busy in your professional life..

While connecting a CT, the output of secondary is shorted and grounded... but my question is that... are the CTs internally shorted or not????

Regards

Jawwad Siddique

Q&A: OK Go’s Lead Singer Tells Us Secrets of the Band’s Geeky Videos [Interviews]

With over six million views in six days, OK Go's video for "This Too Shall Pass" is the latest in their unprecedented string of runaway YouTube hits. Lead singer Damian Kulash shared OK Go's video philosophy—and history—with Gizmodo.

Q: At this point, OK Go may have the best track record of anyone at creating these incredible viral music videos. Why are yours able to stand out?

A: I think it has become increasingly clear to us, as we have chased our most exciting ideas, that there's been a dissolution of the distribution system for music. That seems really depressing when you see that records aren't selling, there's no way to make any money, the system's falling apart. But if the system itself is falling apart, then so are the rules wrought by it. Videos evolved in this very restrictive environment of MTV. There were only maybe 100 that would play at any time, and labels weren't willing to invest in them. So now that the system is falling apart, there's also no reason to stick within the confines of the definitions that were built up during that system. This sounds heady and pretentious, but it means for us the ability to chase our most compelling ideas. We don't have to think so much into the box of "Will this song work on this radio format?" There's an infinite world of possible audiences out there for whatever you're making now.

It's not like we sat down one day and the brain trust came up with idea for "This Too Shall Pass." Tim [Nordwind, the bass player] and I have known each other since we were 12, and it's always been the animating passion of our lives to make fun projects together. Everything from making home videos to recording songs. So the fact that the band got signed and gets to make records is all well and good, but that's all just a part of our creative relationship. Now that we have an outlet for these other things, all the better. The video for "A Million Ways" [below] was originally just a practice run for a live show. When that catches fire… We're now in a position where we don't see restrictions on what we can do at all.

Q: So "A Million Ways" wasn't even supposed to be a video at first? How'd you stumble onto that dance?

A: Before we were even signed, we were all living in Chicago and there was this incredible public access show called Chic-a-GoGo. It's like a lo-fi Soul Train. You bring a five year old in and an art student with a gorilla neck and everybody has a dance party. We only had one song at that point. We got a chance to perform there, which was great, but it was so low budget that they couldn't record our audio. We decided if we're going to lip sync let's swing for the fences, and we came up with this totally ludicrous dance routine to the only song we'd at that point recorded ["C-C-C-Cinnamon Lips"].

Tim worked at NPR at the time, and Ira Glass was a fan. He took us on tour as his opening act for "This American Life," and we kept the dance routine.

Rock shows are such a known quantity. The band does this, the audience does that, and there's a particular range of emotions people go through. But when you bring something people don't expect, it really shakes it up and is very different and weird and fun.

As for the dance for "A Million Ways," we'd come out with our second record and we didn't want to do the same dance that we'd done for our first. My sister choreographed a new one for us, and we worked on it in our backyard. The video was a practice tape, but there was something so funny and awkward and weird about it that we just sent it around to friends. Then it suddenly had 500,000 hits, which was more records than we'd ever sold.

I truly and honestly did not believe that numbers close to that video's were achievable again. A lot of it was dependent on YouTube being brand new at the time, and people discovering the service when the video came out.

Q: Do you feel pressure now for every video to go viral? Especially one that took as much time and effort as "This Too Shall Pass"?

If "This Too Shall Pass" could have a broader footprint than "A Million Ways" or "Here It Goes Again" did, that's great. But that's definitely not our intention. From our perspective, the upshot of these things being successful is the ability to do a lot more of them in the future. We've done a lot of videos in the last few years. I'm definitely happy with the video of "WTF?" and this latest one, but when these videos do well it makes it so much easier to get the other ideas we've conceived done. Saying "I'd love to do this thing [in a video] with six cars" is tough, but now it's more likely that someone will actually give us six cars. It's less that they're designed for viralness and more that the operating principle of our creative life is chasing down those ideas.

Q: Where did "This Too Shall Pass" come from? Do you consider it a continuation of your previous efforts or a jump forward?

A: "This Too Shall Pass" is a combination of a bunch of things. Making the treadmill video ["Here It Goes Again"] and the wallpaper one ["Do What You Want"] after that, I just got really obsessed with these contingent systems. Looking at choreography not as dance or movement but as a performance or a system that requires lots of disparate elements to work in perfect synchrony, or sometimes imperfect semi-synchrony. I was thinking a lot about loosely choreographed pieces. What sort of systems can you do that aren't specifically dance, but you get the effect that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, because everything works just where it should. Rube Goldberg machines are also, I think, universally magical.

Our label, bless their moronic hearts, was given our record nine months ago. It kept getting pushed back. We basically wound up with several months of our lives to just get in trouble. If we'd had to go into promo land and get on tour we wouldn't have time to do this kind of stuff. Basically I got home when the record was done and wrote down my dream list of videos. This whole project started with a two-paragraph description that I put down online as a job post, essentially. I asked for two creative engineers, because I figured that's about what it would take. Two engineers, and a couple of months. It ended up being more like 60 engineers, and five months of work.

Q: The set looks like a walking death trap. Did anyone get hurt, or were there any close calls?

The camera man was actually hit by the giant blue barrel that falls from the ceiling. You see the camera takes jolt at the end, right around the time the airplanes take off. That's the big blue barrel running into him. Otherwise, there were a few bumps and scrapes and bruises. Brett got hit by the bowling ball when it didn't stay on the ramp once. But none of the super dangerous things every hurt anyone, that I know of.

In terms of putting ourselves in harm's way, what makes these things exciting is the experience quality of it. The essential element of this would be lost if we made a film that depicted all these components but didn't actually have them. I can think of other music videos that show Rube Goldberg machines, but they're all carefully edited things. It loses the idea of being there for the people doing it or the people watching it. I pushed the design team to make the ways the machine treats us stranger, rougher. I was hoping the part where I get rocketed across the room would be a catapult. The professional circus riggers who set that up said we couldn't do that. I was pretty insistent, but they were very clear that no, making you airborne is going to hurt you. And I was like, don't people do this all the time? And they said sure, there are stunt men who train for years and/or do this with a lot of CG. I wanted to do it, but apparently this is as dangerous as it gets.

Q: Wait… you had circus riggers on-set? What other professionals came together to help build this thing?

A: It was such an incredible group of people. The doors that fall at the end were designed by a rigger/builder guy who everyone called "The Pirate." His mains source of income is working on longships, so he's actually literally a seaman. The person who painted them is the guy who designed the most recent Coke bottle. It was a crazy group of people. The reason we got that spread is we didn't walk into USC and ask for their brightest engineers. We posted this stuff on the MindShare Labs list. I think they're called Syyn Labs now. They're basically a community of nerdy, creative folks in Los Angeles. Anybody who was wont to go to a lecture series as a drinking venue had access to this. Basically anybody who sees the smart/fun/creative side of engineering.

Q: Why such emphasis on "old-school physics" and practical effects instead of CG?

A: On the basic level, this whole project is only exciting because it is real. It's not a labor of love for anyone to go make a commercial. This is an art project for all these people. If it ain't the real thing, it's not worth it. They're not there to make a video that promotes a band. They're there to make this awesome project. Any time someone suggested a way to do something easier, I gently pushed them away from it. What makes Rube Goldberg machines so universal is very hard to describe and very easy to lose. If you make it failproof, the thing completely loses its magic.

Q: Would you say that's how you've historically approached your videos?

A: Across our videos in general, it's not really a requirement but it's something that attracts me. I once wrote out a list of 20 things that make a good video. One of them is that it's something that anyone watching could, with enough time, have done themselves. Treadmills and choreography and all the things in "This Too Shall Pass," none of those are specialized access. A broken piano costs like 70 bucks. It's not like you have to be an engineer to get that.

Look, we were working with engineers from NASA. Three people who worked on the Mars Rover worked on this machine. And it was wonderful getting people to stop using the specialized part of their skill and get them to use the inspired part. A lot of times I had to explain what "magic" was and what they weren't allowed to do. You want to use optical gates? Okay, but it has to be followable for the audience. What about lasers? You can't use something from your lab you worked in, but you can use a laser pointer from a gas station. What if you dissected a Blu-ray player? Fine, but only as long as people can tell it's from a Blu-ray player. You'd be surprised how much communication it takes.

Q: Any parts in particular stand out where you could've been spared a lot of trouble given a CG or manual assist?

A: Almost every point in there could have been cheated. There's no way to cheat the table I'm sitting on in the beginning. I suppose you could maybe put together that machine and then animate the balls but that would've been incredibly difficult. Almost everything else would have been a lot easier with a manual cheat or CG cheat. The timing on everything was critical.

Take for instance the sunrise contraption, the umbrella that comes up as the sun. The timing delay between the sun coming, the flowers coming up, and the birds coming down—we could have just triggered all that stuff electronically or manually. The way it was actually done is changing the fulcrum of the 2x4s that those things were spinning on, so the weights on the end would spin around more slowly. A hammer gets hit on the fulcrum on the back, and by changing where that hammer was, you change the delay until the release of the flowers. That kind of stuff, there's no reason we couldn't have cheated all this, but the 60 people who built this thing wouldn't have had the challenge and the satisfaction of the finished product.

Q: So what's next? Do you feel pressure to keep topping yourselves?

Mostly I'm just excited because I think this makes it more likely that we'll be able to do more in the future. Finding people who will help us pay for some of these things should be a lot easier right now. And finding collaborators. As wonderful as the team was, there's no way that those people—no matter how compelling an internet posting I'd put up—there's no way they would've signed up to do this if we hadn't already done the treadmills. The success of any particular project is that rather than lifting the bar and creating pressure to come up with new ideas, it opens you up to more and more of them. Now it's more likely that when we call to find an anti-gravity chamber in NASA, it'll happen.

Q: Ha. Is that something we can expect to see at some point?

A: Oh, man. Weightlessness would be the final frontier, I think.