I will be expanding on this, but this point from a regular astute commenter is exactly one that I have touched upon here:
Heaven & Hell Stop You From Genuinely Morally Evaluating
But if you cant be bothered to read that, read(((J_Enigma32)))s recent comment:
Oh, theres a bunch of problems with heaven, but all of it anchors around the reward based-system that religion depends on. Youre never virtuous for your own sake; youre always acting according to your own idea of virtue because you know if you dont, you wont get into heaven. Therefore, one could argue that by your own standards, you arent a virtuous person if you believe in heaven and are motivated by heaven as a potential reward. And thats before we get into the issue of heaven dividing families and the suffering that will inevitably cause. Its what happens when your reward system is individually based rather than focused on something like a society as a whole.The very existence of heaven implies that morality is unimportant; if morality were important and satisfying, then that would be the end goal itself and morality and virtue would be seen as an atelic activity rather than a telic one.
Its a problem that results from all teleological narratives, actually, where they be religious ideas of realitys nature or the historical narratives of the orthodoxy, pushing their particular brand of nationalism, or some libertarian transhumanists, who think were moving closer to something they call a singularity by virtue of their historical narrative of the endless self-improving nature of technology. All of those are wrong, just like heaven is wrong, but theyre all wrong in an understandably human way, and one that fails to account for the hedonic treadmill, which is vital to a discussion like this.
To which marblesanswered:
This was a joy to read, thanks.
one could argue that by your own standards, you arent a virtuous person if you believe in heaven and are motivated by heaven as a potential reward
I actually asked my youth pastor about this when I was around 11 or 12. She laughed and told me not to overthink it, just be a good person for whatever reason I want to.
Addendum: as I see it, if youre only practicing virtue in the hopes of a reward, your true nature shows itself sooner or later. You can always rationalize why youre totally going to Heaven no matter how repulsive a human being you are.
So, can you ever be truly moral, truly alturistic? Its the classic question that I remember debating at school (even then, I surmised that you couldnt). Either way, its even harder with the twin ultimate conceptual blackmails of heaven and hell hanging over you.
Stay in touch! Like A Tippling Philosopher on Facebook:
Go here to read the rest:
Quote of the Day on the Morality of Those Seeking Heaven - Patheos
- Transhuman's Amanda Johnstone on the future of AI and emotions - The Examiner - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Transhumanism: billionaires want to use tech to enhance our abilities the outcomes could change what it means to ... - The Conversation - January 18th, 2024 [January 18th, 2024]
- The Nazis and Their Transhumanist Delusion - Discovery Institute - January 18th, 2024 [January 18th, 2024]
- Conspiracy Theories, Some with Antisemitic Roots, Crop Up in 2023 ... - ADL - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- 10 of The Wildest Fictional Drugs from Transmetropolitan - Screen Rant - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- Sam Altman's Second Coming Sparks New Fears of the AI Apocalypse - WIRED - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- The New Progressive Nihilism - Compact Mag - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- Is Laughter All Weve Got? On David Baddiels The God Desire - lareviewofbooks - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- Luxury industry set to reach $1.6 trillion in sales this year - Glossy - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- SKILLET's JOHN COOPER Explains Why He Believes 'Queer ... - BLABBERMOUTH.NET - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- DC This Week Roundup - Superheroes Across Space and Time - GeekDad - November 28th, 2023 [November 28th, 2023]
- Transcending Time. The Transhumanist Challenge To | by ... - Medium - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- From Trans Healthcare to Transhumanism: Reality vs. Conspiracy at ... - Colorado Times Recorder - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Opinion | The Reactionary Futurism of Marc Andreessen - The New York Times - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Pursuing the Ethics of Artificial Intelligence in Healthcare - Cedars-Sinai - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Curse God and Die, They Said. It Will Be Fun, They Said - The Stream - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Cardinal Hollerich: The openness of the Synod on Synodality 'will ... - Catholic World Report - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Virtual insanity Winnipeg Free Press - Winnipeg Free Press - October 31st, 2023 [October 31st, 2023]
- Interview In praise of failure - Morning Star Online - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- I used Grimes' AI vocals to make a hit here's how I did it - NME - May 22nd, 2023 [May 22nd, 2023]
- ric Sadin and the Challenges of Artificial Intelligence - Exploring your Mind - May 22nd, 2023 [May 22nd, 2023]
- Crazy Town: Episode 73. How Longtermism Became the Most ... - Resilience - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Why Warhammer 40K fans keep arguing about the Emperors terrible sons - Polygon - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Are We Co-Creators with God? - Answers In Genesis - April 23rd, 2023 [April 23rd, 2023]
- Why Is Everything 'Punk' Now? - TheGamer - April 23rd, 2023 [April 23rd, 2023]
- Let 3 from Croatia: "We want to heal the world from hate and stupidity" - Eurovisionworld - April 23rd, 2023 [April 23rd, 2023]
- Prominent Dutch Philosopher and Convert Charts Her Path to the Catholic Church - National Catholic Register - April 23rd, 2023 [April 23rd, 2023]
- Is There a Best Way to Think About the Future of Earth? - Inverse - April 23rd, 2023 [April 23rd, 2023]
- 'Infinity Pool' Review: Skarsgrd and Goth Star in Disgusting and Hypnotic Horror - The Indiependent - March 24th, 2023 [March 24th, 2023]
- What is transhumanism? | GotQuestions.org - February 18th, 2023 [February 18th, 2023]
- Elon Musk & Neuralink to start human trials of his computer chip brain ... - January 4th, 2023 [January 4th, 2023]
- Transhuman Space - Wikipedia - January 4th, 2023 [January 4th, 2023]
- Dr. Carrie Madej: why vaccines alter the human DNA - Stop World Control - November 23rd, 2022 [November 23rd, 2022]
- Transhuman online - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- Transhumanist Bill of Rights Version 3.0 - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- Transhuman Aliens - TV Tropes - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- DARPA's New Biotech Division Wants To Create A Transhuman Future - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- Transhuman Space | GURPS Wiki | Fandom - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- Transhuman Overhaul [Half-Life 2] [Mods] - GameBanana - October 21st, 2022 [October 21st, 2022]
- Transhumanism: The Final Frontier? - Evening Standard - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- Former GOP candidates push baseless QAnon conspiracy theory that Hurricane Ian was created to punish DeSantis - The Independent - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- Is the body key to understanding consciousness? - The Guardian - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- Cyborg Sapiens Book Opening Window on Future Presented in Athens - The National Herald - September 22nd, 2022 [September 22nd, 2022]
- America embraces the fourth industrial revolution - The Post - UnHerd - September 22nd, 2022 [September 22nd, 2022]
- You need to watch 2022's best video game adaptation ASAP - Inverse - September 22nd, 2022 [September 22nd, 2022]
- Top 10 Magic Churches Through Which To Work Out My Real World Feelings About Religion - Hipsters of the Coast - Hipsters of the Coast - September 22nd, 2022 [September 22nd, 2022]
- Dr. Carrie Madej Out of Georgia | American Media Periscope - September 11th, 2022 [September 11th, 2022]
- Not Applicable Website for Not Applicable label and artists ... - September 11th, 2022 [September 11th, 2022]
- Review: BBC PROMS AND THE ENO at Printworks London - Broadway World - September 7th, 2022 [September 7th, 2022]
- The fruit of the transhumanist project will not be a better human being - TVP World - September 2nd, 2022 [September 2nd, 2022]
- WEF agenda envisions an augmented society ruled by Internet of Bodies, digital ID - The Sociable - September 2nd, 2022 [September 2nd, 2022]
- Prebunking Disinformation | prebunking disinformation - Patheos - September 2nd, 2022 [September 2nd, 2022]
- What Is A Human? - The American Conservative - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- Stray - A simple and focused game in a world of games that go astray - Flayrah - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- McDermott: Pinner may have been crackers, but in today's GOP, she was practically normal - St. Louis Post-Dispatch - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- Axiom Verge 2 The Games Sole Creator, Thomas Happ, Discusses How Science Fiction Impacted Bot... - Happy Gamer - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- From Silk Road to NFTs: Why Musician and Artist Tycho Sees Web3 as the Endgame - Decrypt - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- The Three-City Problem of Modern Life - WIRED - August 29th, 2022 [August 29th, 2022]
- Transhumanists want to upload their minds to a computer. They really won't like the result - Big Think - August 6th, 2022 [August 6th, 2022]
- A fake salsa band ignites the rebirth of an old New York record label - EL PAS USA - August 6th, 2022 [August 6th, 2022]
- WISeKey Strengthens its Technology Portfolio Across Cybersecurity, IoT, NFT and the Metaverse - MarTech Series - August 6th, 2022 [August 6th, 2022]
- Artist Stelarcs creature comes to life at Science Gallery - The Age - August 6th, 2022 [August 6th, 2022]
- The Wearable Cyberpunk Future on the Horizon - Hackster.io - August 2nd, 2022 [August 2nd, 2022]
- This Boulder art exhibit is beautiful and ugly all at once - The Denver Post - August 2nd, 2022 [August 2nd, 2022]
- WISeKey Announces the Launch of "The Code to The Metaverse" an Interactive Multi-Media Platform at Davos Event - GuruFocus.com - June 30th, 2022 [June 30th, 2022]
- The 10 best games of 2022 (so far) - The A.V. Club - June 30th, 2022 [June 30th, 2022]
- Transhuman Elon Musk: Your Brain Will Get Its Own USB-C Port - June 3rd, 2022 [June 3rd, 2022]
- SRMs Road to The US Open Seattle Part 6: Transhuman in the Box - June 3rd, 2022 [June 3rd, 2022]
- Elon Musk unveils Optimus: A humanoid robot where you will ... - Marca - June 3rd, 2022 [June 3rd, 2022]
- WISeKey Announces the Launch of The Code to The Metaverse an Interactive Multi-Media Platform at Davos Event - GlobeNewswire - June 3rd, 2022 [June 3rd, 2022]
- Secrets and Lies Star Trek: Strange New Worlds: Ghosts of Illyria - Tor.com - May 23rd, 2022 [May 23rd, 2022]
- The Cyberpunk Genre Is Broken, And The Creator Of Citizen Sleeper Agrees - Kotaku - May 21st, 2022 [May 21st, 2022]
- 4 Lessons the Era of Technology Has Taught Us - Sprout Wired - April 27th, 2022 [April 27th, 2022]
- danish pavilion unveils transhuman installation 'we walked the earth' at venice art biennale - Designboom - April 25th, 2022 [April 25th, 2022]
- There Is No New Normal - Caffeinated Thoughts - April 25th, 2022 [April 25th, 2022]
- Watch: First Trailer for Body Horror movie 'Crimes of the Future' - We Got This Covered - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- 4 Female Digital Artists on the Future of NFTs and the Metaverse - HYPEBAE - April 13th, 2022 [April 13th, 2022]
- Marcel the Shell With Shoes On Returns in New Trailer - The Daily Beast - April 13th, 2022 [April 13th, 2022]
- 'The Flight Attendant' Season 2 Trailer Introduces a Kaley Cuoco Multiverse - The Daily Beast - April 13th, 2022 [April 13th, 2022]
- Re-Open the Floodgates of American Energy to Prevent an Oil-pocalypse - California Globe - April 4th, 2022 [April 4th, 2022]