Jacek Tabisz on Humanism and Rationalism in Polish Society – The Good Men Project

Jacek Tabisz is the Vice-President and Secretary of the Polish Rationalist Association and the author of New Humanism.

Here we talk about Glenn Gould, Canada and British Columbia, and Humanism and Rationalism in Poland.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: We met at an obscure Danish pub with Kaja Bryx, Kacem Al Ghazzali, and Kamil Gawel. I forget off the top if there were others during that time. It was at the outside gatherings of the World Humanist Congress and General Assembly of Humanists International 2023. Now, those meetings are noteworthy and important, but even more distinct and relevant than the others with our meetings: Glenn Gould. I love Glenn Gould. Hes Canadian so hooray. Lets start on the late Gould, the man, as has been said, gave so much of himself and let so few know him. How did you discover his music?

Jacek Tabisz: I have loved listening to classical music since childhood. Back in the times of communism in Poland, I also became interested in the world of early music, although we were cut off from records from non-communist countries, including Canadian records. For Poles, they cost as much as half a salary. After the fall of communism, the first distributors of Western records, as well as monthly magazines about classical music, including early music, appeared in Poland. Canor, published by the University of Toru, was particularly valuable. It was there that I learned about Goulds piano art. At the beginning I was a bit skeptical, because I was hungry for harpsichord Bach. But Gould captivated me from the first sounds with his imagination and enormous talent. Today I understand that without him, Bachs harpsichord would sound completely different.

Jacobsen: Does he have much of an imprint on Polish culture, or is it just you? I know he has a cult following in the Japanese culture. Other people in love with a dead person.

Tabisz: Glenn Gould has supporters all over the world. Bruno Monsaigneons famous works about him (books, articles, DVDs) were translated into Polish quite quickly. Many Polish music critics considered it an important point of reference. When it comes to pianists, I cannot name anyone as inspired by Gould as Helen Grimaud. Maybe because we ourselves have very strong piano traditions living in the shadow of the great Chopin? The closest to Gould was the famous Polish-Hungarian pianist Piotr Anderszewski, about whom Mosaigneon also made an excellent film reportage.

Jacobsen: What are your favourite pieces by him? One of mine is BWV 54 with Russell Oberlin.

Tabisz: I particularly appreciate Goulds second recording of the Goldberg Variations, as well as Haydns works and everything he recorded by Schoenberg.

Jacobsen: What were your earliest moments of rationalism and humanism?

Tabisz: In my childhood, as a ten-year-old, I had a strange dream, after which I woke up wondering that I was born in this particular time, in this particular country, as a human being and not, for example, as a butterfly or a dog. I dont know if it was very rational, but then I gained some distance from me. I realized that the self is built by circumstance and also inherited. This also applies to faith. If I were born in China, would I have a father who would take me to church every Sunday hoping that I would gain the grace of faith? But it was not the question of atheism or theism that was most important in this early intuition. The most important thing was the distance I gained from this dreamlike feeling.

Jacobsen: How did you come to the polish rationalist community?

Tabisz: Thanks to the internet. Previously, I thought I was quite alone in my atheism and rationalism. Poles were very grateful to the Church for helping them fight the Soviet occupation. I was grateful too, but I began to realize that freedom had more than just a political dimension. However, before I found traces of Polish atheism and rationalism on the Internet, independent of communism, I thought that open atheism was expressed only by people collaborating with communism, and these were not attractive people to me. I was also a bit active in the opposition, I was too young to be more active, but my parents were very involved in the fight for freedom. Hence my fathers faithful attitude towards the Church.

Jacobsen: What have been your roles and responsibilities with the Polish Rationalist Association?

Tabisz: Now I have been vice president for several years. I was the president of this organization for many years, and I became president relatively soon after becoming a member. I wanted to act and had many ideas.

Jacobsen: What would you target as the major issues facing the rationalist discourse and public education in Poland?

Tabisz: These issues have changed. For example, we once fought for ethics lessons and an objective vision of Polish history in schools. Now the threats are different. Humanity is once again losing faith in the importance of freedom of speech, and new great ideologies are beginning to triumph in the world. Some of them seem beautiful, but in my opinion they are potentially criminal, just like Marxs ideas. It is certainly worth fighting against relativistic postmodernism in favor of modernism and the popularization of science.

Jacobsen: What have been the major initiatives that youve seen as the most successful by the Polish Rationalist Association?

Tabisz: Certainly those concerning the popularization of access to ethics lessons or those aimed at expressing a rationalist worldview without fear. In terms of projects, what I like most is our interdisciplinary Darwin Days, co-organized with universities and the Polish Skeptics Club.

Jacobsen: Who have been major collaborators with the Polish Rationalist Association?

Tabisz: Among our main collaborators, I can mention the already mentioned Club of Polish Skeptics, but also universities in Wrocaw, Warsaw and Pozna, as well as foundations and associations such as Freedom from Religion, Polish Humanists and many others.

Jacobsen: In British Columbia, where I live, theres a significant non-religious population, but Langley, more precisely where I live, is known for not a huge religious population only about half but an intensely political religious population. They want fundamentalist theology exported into federal politics and culture. One study of the local private Evangelical University found the university theology became more and more fundamentalist as the surrounding culture and wider Canadian society became more liberalized and non-religious. Are there similar dynamics in Polish society?

Tabisz: For now, there is simply a broadly understood grassroots secularization taking place in Poland. It is difficult to say whether fundamentalist movements are growing against this background. There are some niche initiatives of this type, but it is difficult to say that there are more of them than ten years ago, when the secularization process was much less advanced.

Jacobsen: What has been the longest-standing issue in combating various irrationalities in Poland? One in the United States is fundamentalist preachers of an unprecedented sort in advanced industrial economies with educated populations. Prolific liars, charlatans, bombasts, or, simply, insane Bible interpreters either because of the Bible, innate craziness, or both. Some of this leaks over into this local area, but Canadian liberalism has been a buttress.

Tabisz: Maybe the too high status of priests, allowing some of them considerable impunity for abuses such as pedophilia or financial scams? In most cases, however, the problems change. Today, I am less afraid of an excess of Catholicism than of the already mentioned attacks on freedom of speech and rational thinking related to the culture of wokeness or political correctness.

Jacobsen: What have been the setbacks for the rationalist community in Poland?

Tabisz: Failures included numerous divisions after successes. As soon as we became famous, some members of the association separated from us and created a new entity. Almost half of Polish secular organizations sprouted from the Polish Rationalist Association. I experienced this quite strongly, especially when I was the president of the association and I was responsible for some of the successes, which on the one hand were great, but on the other, were the source of divisions.

Jacobsen: Where can people learn more about the humanist and rationalist communities in Poland?

Tabisz: Well. I recently wrote a book called New Humanism, which, in addition to the philosophical layer, contains a guide to Polish and global humanistic and rationalist endeavors. For now, the book only exists in Polish. In addition, we have a website and we have left many traces on the Internet, not only in Polish.

Jacobsen: How can they support the efforts of those organizations?

Tabisz: We have recently become a Public Benefit Organization and we also have Patronite. In addition, you can support us by coming to our debates, meetings and participating in our activities.

Jacobsen: Any final thoughts?

Tabisz: You have to see the changing world. For example, you cannot, like French secularists, fight against the Church, which basically no longer exists in France, without even noticing the hundreds of threats related to Islam. We cannot talk and write only about euthanasia and abortion without noticing the currently growing other threats to human freedom, often created by circles that were once our obvious allies. Neither allies nor enemies are eternal. However, reality is complex and you cannot be monothematic in your actions.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Jacek.

Tabisz: Thank You Scott!

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Photo credit: Jacek Tabisz.

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Jacek Tabisz on Humanism and Rationalism in Polish Society - The Good Men Project