WASHINGTON Back when green was merely a color as opposed to a movement, Bill McKibben was on the frontlines of the environmental wars. After graduating from Harvard in 1982, he worked at the New Yorker but eventually left to publish The End of Nature in 1989, a book that established him as a leading thinker on the damage human activity is causing to the planet and future generations of humans.
Since 2001, he has been teaching at Middlebury College in Vermont and publishing books, including most recently The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon. A memoir of sorts, the book is best explained by its own subtitle: A Graying American Looks Back at His Suburban Boyhood and Wonders What the Hell Happened.
Bill McKibben was one of the speakers for an Earth Day event organized by the Center for Earth Ethics in April. (Erik McGregor/LightRocket via Getty Images)
Though hardly romantic about the past, McKibben is especially dismayed by the American present, wondering how we became a society strained by bleak racial and economic inequality, where life expectancy was falling even before a pandemic deepened our divisions, on a heating planet whose physical future is dangerously in question.
McKibben spoke to Yahoo News from his home in Vermont on what he said was a lovely day. It was humid in Washington, D.C., where climate change will soon enough render weather conditions akin to what Mississippi experiences today.
Yahoo News: You write about neighborliness. What is that, and why is it important?
Bill McKibben: I use a number of different words to talk about the same thing, which is the sense that we belong to communities as large as our species and as small as our neighborhood. Over the course of my life, we encountered the extremely radical idea that our only duty was really to ourselves, perhaps our family.
That was the key switch. Jimmy Carter represented one world, and Ronald Reagan the other. We made a decisive choice.
To you, the neoliberal turn is the disastrous one that has brought us to this point?
It goes deeper than just neoliberal economics. When Im discussing Christianity, I think thats what happened there too, from community to evangelicals single-minded focus on my personal Lord and savior. Weve ended up in a very transactional and hyper-individual world in so many ways.
Story continues
I might be misreading, but I dont think you see this solely as the project of philosophical conservatives.
There were certainly seeds of it that came out of the 60s as well. Do your own thing had Ayn Rand (an influential novelist and philosopher) on some level too.
If, in a sense, our entire society is complicit in this arrangement, could it be that simply most people want to live this way?
Its possible. Its a very interesting question. Clearly human nature contains both things, right? Theres a draw to a kind of selfishness, and that, evolutionary biologists can explain. But theres also a draw to a kind of sense of community and connectedness that again, even evolutionary biologists can explain. Good working societies hold these things in balance right down to the idea that you might need a gun because you had to have a well-regulated militia. But thats a very different world than the world where everyone decides they want their own AR-15 because thats what freedom means.
Theres a lot in your book about debts that need to be paid. Can you explain that concept?
Weve come to this extraordinary period of just unimaginable wealth creation. But we now understand some of the cost, the expense of others. Whether there were people in our own society shut out from the economic escalator ride or people who are having their lives turned upside down by the carbon that we poured into the atmosphere in the course of becoming that prosperous.
Im old-fashioned enough to think that debts owed should be repaid.
Often debts are only repaid if theres some compulsion to do so, right?
Thats true. In this case one lacks any method of forcing it. Thats why one writes books and organizes and so on and so forth. And appeals to the conscience of people, which is not a completely fruitless appeal.
But should government be more muscular in these areas?
Of course. But government is just another way of saying all of us working together. So unless we build a consensus within our society that we should do these things, then the government is not going to do them.
What I am trying to get at is that some progressives have shown frustration with democracy. They cant compel these changes that you write about, but they recognize their necessity.
Yes, and if one perhaps had an alternative to recommend to democracy, maybe it would be worth thinking about it, but probably not for me. Because, as the book points out, I grew up in Lexington, Mass., and I had the notion that democracy is important imprinted on me at an early age.
You start out the book with a very poignant image of what it was like to grow up there. Im guessing home prices have increased, well, not literally exponentially but considerably.
Id say literally. The house my parents bought for 30 grand, which was roughly 200 grand in todays dollars, it sold last year, and the last person who bought it paid a million dollars for it and immediately tore it down, and on this narrow footprint of land has built something that looks like a cross between a junior high and a medium security prison.
Exponential is the only word to describe how fast home price values have gone up. And thats the definition in a sense of unearned income. People just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
And what does that mean? What does the proliferation of wealth as represented by real estate and stocks, what does that do to society?
It makes permanent whatever divisions and inequalities were present when you got on the escalator. It makes sure that people who werent able to get on the escalator at the bottom, never catch up. The numbers are really quite remarkable about what happened to, say, the wealth gap between white and Black Americans over this period of time.
Are racial reparations necessary?
Yeah. I mean who knows what were going to call them? And Im well aware that to say that is a great gift to right-wing politicians. Do you talk about them? But in terms of justice, theres no question.
I think thats the underlying reason people are so crazy about having anyone teach about racism in the public schools. Its not because I think people are worried that their children are going to be burdened with guilt. Children are smart. Children have studied history for a long time and done just fine. Its because people are feeling guilty themselves and dont want to have to think about it. Because why would you want to think about it?
What would it tell you about this country if Trump or someone like him were elected in 2024?
The body rallied to fight off the virus once. But clearly it weakened us yet more to do it, and it doesnt feel right now like the body politic is especially strong or in a place to fight off those fevers again. We shall see. But, I mean, it would be a sign, I think that that fever had not broken.
Can you explain the relationship between cultural issues, the political issues you write about in this book and the climate work that youve been doing for many years now?
The ideological framework that weve been living in since Reagan was absolutely perfect for constantly expanding our demands on the environment and absolutely poisonous for figuring out a way to rein in the climate crisis.
These decades have been a period when the U.S. has uniquely possessed extraordinary leverage because of its wealth and superpower status. And all that leverage was used in the wrong direction when it came to climate change.
Are you pessimistic about the future?
Well, look, the title of the very first book that I wrote about all this back when I was 27 or something, it was The End of Nature. So Im not a Pollyanna. But Im also, you know, I spend all day as a volunteer and organizer, and I wouldnt do that if I had decided there was no use. Im not an idiot either. Ill keep it up as long as I can make a plausible argument to myself that its worthwhile, and if I cant, then I will retire to the back porch to drink bourbon.
What kind of bourbon do you like?
What do you got?
See the article here:
- That Day I Interviewed Ayn Rand - Foundation for Economic Education - March 2nd, 2024 [March 2nd, 2024]
- Ayn Rand's Anthem Was Adapted Into a Graphic Novel, and Its Timing Couldn't Be Better | Maeve Ronan - Foundation for Economic Education - February 16th, 2024 [February 16th, 2024]
- Real World Economics: Ayn Rand and the Grand Canyon - St. Paul Pioneer Press - February 1st, 2024 [February 1st, 2024]
- Tech Entrepreneur Elle Morrill Offers Inspirational Life Advice in ARI Roundtable - New Ideal - February 1st, 2024 [February 1st, 2024]
- America needs to clean up its act | News, Sports, Jobs - Alpena News - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- How immigration creates a more prosperous world - Learn Liberty - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- Yad Vashem tour by Israel Heritage Foundation visibly moves ... - JNS.org - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- Anna May Wong and Chinatown Noir: 4 Essential Films - CrimeReads - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- Ditch your business books and pick up these three novels for a fresh ... - ETHRWorld Middle East - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- Your Guide to the Rory Gilmore Reading Challenge - The Everygirl - August 26th, 2023 [August 26th, 2023]
- BioShock 4 May Have an Edge Compared to Other Modern FPS ... - GameRant - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- LETTER: When will Republicans wake up? - The Pantagraph - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel' Celebrated Selfishness as a Virtue - Reason - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- Blaming the Victim - CounterPunch.org - CounterPunch - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- Coalition of AI leaders sees 'societal-scale risks' from the ... - SiliconANGLE News - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- Fall 2023 Adult Announcements: Literary Fiction - Publishers Weekly - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- 20 Box Office Bombs That Got Sequels - MovieWeb - June 2nd, 2023 [June 2nd, 2023]
- Religious Skeptics Should Question Their Moral Theology - New Ideal - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- What Ayn Rand Understood about Romantic Love That so Many Fail ... - Foundation for Economic Education - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- 1923 Emmy Submissions Revealed for Harrison Ford, Helen Mirren and More (EXCLUSIVE) - Variety - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Column: This is what happens when you take Ayn Rand seriously - April 10th, 2023 [April 10th, 2023]
- How Ayn Rand, Emerson and Thoreau perverted the American Dream - April 10th, 2023 [April 10th, 2023]
- Ayn Rand - Books, Quotes & Philosophy - Biography - February 18th, 2023 [February 18th, 2023]
- EDITORIAL: Remembering the great Ayn Rand, a champion of capitalism and ... - February 5th, 2023 [February 5th, 2023]
- The curious cult of the friend of fascism | Anthony Daniels - The Critic - October 17th, 2022 [October 17th, 2022]
- Ocean City 'Jeopardy!' champion wins almost $60,000 in 7th consecutive win, over $220,000 total - Press of Atlantic City - October 17th, 2022 [October 17th, 2022]
- Will Amanda Seyfried (The Dropout) ride her Emmy high all the way to a SAG Award win? - Gold Derby - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Books review: What to read in October - Reader's Digest - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Democrats dig the graves of freedom and prosperity - Washington Times - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Baseball and Yom Kippur: Is there a Koufax curse? - Forward - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- The limits of Justice Ketanji Brown Jacksons power - Fortune - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Race Across The World and Louis Theroux Interviews among new BBC Factual and Arts slate - Royal Television Society | - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Fool Britannia: sloppy Tory treatise a hint of horrible things to come - Crikey - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Day one at the Tory conference: Industry cries out for stability but U-turns and uncertainty continue - Building - October 6th, 2022 [October 6th, 2022]
- Former Capitol Police Chief Steven A. Sund Set To Publish A New Book About The Attack On January 6th With Explosive Never-Before-Revealed Information... - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- Right place at the right time: freeports model gives fillip to St Helens regeneration scheme - The Guardian - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- Reflections from London on the queen's life and death - Baptist News Global - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- Editorial: NH voters, beware of radical threat on ballot - Valley News - September 11th, 2022 [September 11th, 2022]
- 10 Wednesday AM Reads - The Big Picture - Barry Ritholtz - September 11th, 2022 [September 11th, 2022]
- Opinion: Renewables are great and all, but who'll pay when they fail? - Houston Chronicle - September 11th, 2022 [September 11th, 2022]
- The Simpsons' Playdate With Destiny Short Was A Product Of Serendipity - /Film - August 27th, 2022 [August 27th, 2022]
- Filthy Animals Pries Open The Violent, Animalistic Notions In Human Relationships - Gaysi - August 27th, 2022 [August 27th, 2022]
- How Isabel Paterson Helped Ayn Rand Find Atlantis - The Objective Standard - August 25th, 2022 [August 25th, 2022]
- Where Is 'The Anarchists' Star Jason Henza Today? - Newsweek - August 25th, 2022 [August 25th, 2022]
- Objectivism Q&A with Ben Bayer and Dan Schwartz - New Ideal - August 2nd, 2022 [August 2nd, 2022]
- Book Banning Is Wrong Unless It Gets Me Out of Helping My Kid With His Homework - The Hard Times - August 2nd, 2022 [August 2nd, 2022]
- THE TEACHER'S DESK: Breaking the Rules | Opinion | thetimestribune.com - Times Tribune of Corbin - July 21st, 2022 [July 21st, 2022]
- If Big Ten didnt just add lucrative programs like USC but trimmed stragglers, whod get the boot? | Jones - PennLive - July 21st, 2022 [July 21st, 2022]
- A high point of our time in southern Alberta, Canada - Patheos - July 21st, 2022 [July 21st, 2022]
- The Banality of Putin and Xi - New Ideal - June 30th, 2022 [June 30th, 2022]
- 4 Pillars of The Illusion | C. Don Jones - Patheos - June 30th, 2022 [June 30th, 2022]
- The Philosophic Case for the Absolute Right to Abortion - New Ideal - June 26th, 2022 [June 26th, 2022]
- R2AK: Will monohulls sweep the podium? - Scuttlebutt Sailing News - June 26th, 2022 [June 26th, 2022]
- Bill Maher Addressed an Eventful Political Week on Real Time - InsideHook - June 26th, 2022 [June 26th, 2022]
- Ayn Rand v Donald Trump? - Daily Kos - June 22nd, 2022 [June 22nd, 2022]
- Letter: The rules of life are very simple - Detroit Lakes Tribune - June 22nd, 2022 [June 22nd, 2022]
- The Banality of Putin and Xi | Yaron Brook and Elan Journo - IAI - June 22nd, 2022 [June 22nd, 2022]
- Is Discussing the Consequences of Anti-Vaccine Disinformation Fun? - Science Based Medicine - June 3rd, 2022 [June 3rd, 2022]
- O'Donnell: Will the NBA's new red-light camera calls ruin The Finals for ABC/ESPN? - Daily Herald - June 1st, 2022 [June 1st, 2022]
- The Strange and Terrifying Ideas of Neoreactionaries Current Affairs - Current Affairs - June 1st, 2022 [June 1st, 2022]
- Martin Scorsese, Objectivism, Relativism, and How We Read Cinema - No Film School - June 1st, 2022 [June 1st, 2022]
- Ayn Rand, Objectivists, and COVID - Science Based Medicine - May 25th, 2022 [May 25th, 2022]
- Ayn Rand vs. Classical Economists - The Objective Standard - May 25th, 2022 [May 25th, 2022]
- Opinion | Demolishing the Demonic Plans of Our Enemy, and Can We Get An Amen - Common Dreams - May 20th, 2022 [May 20th, 2022]
- Ayn Rand's We the Living: Back on the Silver Screenand Better Than Ever - The Objective Standard - May 17th, 2022 [May 17th, 2022]
- Congress revival: Time to break free of family - The Hans India - May 17th, 2022 [May 17th, 2022]
- The Financial Dark Ages Are Ending Thanks To Bitcoin - Bitcoin Magazine - May 17th, 2022 [May 17th, 2022]
- Marital rape: How understanding context rather than just focusing on consent will help resolve the issue - Firstpost - May 13th, 2022 [May 13th, 2022]
- Deadly Class Season 2: Is a Release Date or Rumor in the Offing on Netflix? - Federal Regulations Advisor - May 13th, 2022 [May 13th, 2022]
- The Daily Cartoon and Live Briefing: Monday, May 9, 2022 - FlaglerLive.com - May 13th, 2022 [May 13th, 2022]
- Victory at San Jacinto liberated the individual | Opinion | jacksonvilleprogress.com - Jacksonville Daily Progress - April 20th, 2022 [April 20th, 2022]
- RUSH's GEDDY LEE Says NEIL PEART 'Didn't Want Anyone To Know' About His Illness: 'He Wanted To Keep It In The House' - BLABBERMOUTH.NET - April 20th, 2022 [April 20th, 2022]
- The Alternative Meat Industry Wants Solar Power Style Mandates And Subsidies - Science 2.0 - April 20th, 2022 [April 20th, 2022]
- diSConnected: Is Ayn Rand or Mother Teresa better for protecting South Carolinians with disabilities? - South Carolina Public Radio - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- Did the John Birch Society Win in the End? - The Bulwark - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- Boris Johnsons Covid bravado insults the NHS and the public - The Guardian - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- Science Fiction in a Time of Crisis - Filmmaker Magazine - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- The criticism facing Rishi Sunak has nothing to do with race, and all to do with greed - iNews - April 15th, 2022 [April 15th, 2022]
- Zack Snyder's Star Wars-Themed Movie Recruits The Princess Bride Star - Giant Freakin Robot - April 11th, 2022 [April 11th, 2022]
- Debate sparked after University of Bristol students try to 'cancel' controversial speaker - Bristol Live - April 11th, 2022 [April 11th, 2022]