In the second exclusive interview that we filmed with Richard Rogers, the late British architect explained the story behind the Centre Pompidou that he designed with Renzo Piano and the controversy it generated.
The interview is one of a series Dezeen filmed with Rogers to coincide with a retrospective of his work at the Royal Academy of Arts in London in 2013.
Rogers, who passed away at the age of 88 last month, was one of the world's best-known architects and a pioneer of high-tech architecture.
Among his most notable works was the Centre Pompidou, an inside-out cultural centre in Paris that he completed in 1977 with Italian architect Piano, a fellow high-tech pioneer.
In this interview, filmed at the Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners studio in London, Rogers recalled the tumultuous process of designing the Centre Pompidou, which was initially "vilified" before becoming "the most visited building" in Europe.
However, he also described the flak he received from people who hated the building. He recalled a conversation with a woman who struck up a conversation with him outside the centre: "I said that I designed it and she hit me on the head with her umbrella."
Read on for a transcript of the interview below:
"The Pompidou it was actually called Beaubourg when we did the competition, and Pompidou when Pompidou [the former president of France] died a year before completion was a competition for a museum, a library, a music centre and design centre. I'm going to say in the centre of Paris but in a very rundown area.
"When we did our first studies, it showed that there was no public space nearby. So, we created this big piazza. I think there were 681 entries. Strangely enough, there were no other ones with a big piazza.
"The piazza is really critical to the workings of the Pompidou and in a sense, it was a Fun Palace, using a very well known phrase by Joan Littlewood and Cedric Price of the post-war era, shall we say, it wasn't just a building.
"So the idea was you had a public space horizontal, and you'd go up the facade of the building in streets in the air and escalators sloping across it. So the whole thing became very much dynamic. People come to see people as well as to see art and people come to meet people. So we wanted to make that as packed as a theatre.
"And on the facade in those days was an electronic screen that could connect up with any other museum or cultural centre. We had it all going very well until Pompidou died and Giscard [the subsequent president of France] came along and he said those terrible words that sunk it with no hands.
"He said, 'but what side, the left or the right control it?' and I said 'oh, it's not political'. And he said, 'can't pull my leg, it's a political weapon. I don't want it'. So that died.
Architects and creatives remember "superstar" architect Richard Rogers
"Having said that, what Renzo and I had worked out was, of course, the French are fantastic at promenading. So they promenade through the facade, they promenaded through the piazza, and then all these other people came. It was attacked, vilified whilst we were designing, from the first day onwards. Nobody said one kind word until it opened and when people started to queue up, then it became open.
"I remember once, standing outside on a rainy day, and there was this small woman with an umbrella she said, 'do you want to have shelter?' and I said, 'yes, thank you'. We started talking as one does in the rain. And she said, 'what do you think of this building? The Pompidou'.
"Stupidly, which I'd never normally do, I said that I designed it and she hit me on the head with her umbrella. That was just typical of the general reaction of the people, especially during the design and construction stage, destroying their beautiful Paris.
"And of course, you know, it does not fit in within the sense of what was Paris. All good architecture is modern in its time. Gothic was a fantastic shock; the Renaissance was another shock to all the little medieval buildings.
"I come from Florence and the Strozzi palace, which is one of the largest palaces in Florence, which is, I suppose, four storeys going eight storeys, and there's a famous document of one of the neighbours saying 'you're building a building completely out of scale with ours', a tower next to it. Because, of course, from one to eight is a big difference.
The shock of the new is always rather difficult to get over
"So changes, the shock of the new is always rather difficult to get over. Though it's much better, it's got better, partly because I'm older, people looking at the buildings of mine and Renzo's, they either love them or hate them, so they're more used to it, but boy was that hard.
"So then we said, 'okay, we'll have fantastic flexibility'. The one thing we knew about this age is it's all about change, if there's one constant, it's change. So we said that 'we will make massive floors', which were in fact the size of two football pitches with no vertical interruptions, structure on the outside, mechanical service on the outside, people movement on the outside and theoretically you can do anything you want on those floors.
"We didn't say where the museum should go, where the library should go, and of course, the library changed radically because when we started there were books and by the time we finished it books were almost finished because it was IT.
"So again, that's about change, because you needed it to have a library, you needed it to have different types of spaces, all these racks of books, you know, more or less go, and so on. Which is typical of an evolving, lively institution, whether it's an office building or even a house, it has to respond.
"And today's buildings, unlike shall we say the buildings of the past when we used to say architecture is like frozen music, actually, I would suggest today, architecture is more like jazz, dynamic jazz, jazz that you can interpret in different ways within a beat in a framework. So we were looking also at that as the whole modern art and modern thinking was going.
Centre Pompidou is high-tech architecture's inside-out landmark
"Renzo and I, well we've been very close friends, we met about two years before we did Pompidou and now we speak at least once a week and we go sailing together so we're very, very close. It's quite difficult to divide us.
"If you look at our earlier work, we did the house in Wimbledon for my parents, which is a single storey house and steel and it's highly insulated, it's transparent, the bathrooms are in a very compact way, everything can move, all the partitions can move. You can see a link from that to the Pompidou. The difference of about 1,000 times the scale.
"If you look at Renzo's work, beautifully structured work. He's done some wonderful laboratories, tremendous engineering, construction processes and buildings. His father was a contractor, a major contractor.
"If you put those together, you could argue that it sort of goes in that in that direction. Of course, it's not true, because he probably could have gone in another direction.
We wanted to make a building that clearly was of our period
"We wanted to make a building which clearly was of our period, which caught the zeitgeist of the now. The big thing in those days, the 60s, is the student movement and in France, it is said that Pompidou had a plane revving up because he thought he'd lost the war against the students, the intellectuals, and the workers.
"Literally, with that, that moment changed history, certainly for Europe. And it looked as though there'll be a revolution. In fact, it didn't happen. But of course, we captured some of it in the building. The facade on the building, if you look more carefully, which, I've talked about the screen, was very much about the riots. It was very much about Vietnam.
"I met my wife, with other friends who were escaping the draft, not that she was but her friends were. There was a highly active period of politics. And you could argue that was also part of the concept that this is a dynamic period, a period which we know will change but we want to catch what's going on at the moment.
"Now, having said that, we rationalised it like hell. I mean, if you look at the written documents, there are very much documents which tell you about the building. Now some are post rationalisations, some are rationalisations, shall we say.
"But overall, yes, we said we will put the building not as you want it, in those days in the middle of the piazza, but actually on one side to give the people a place to meet, we'll put it on the street because we'll keep the nature of the long street.
It is a place for the meeting of all people
"We need a movement system which is dynamic, I hate going up in sort of internal lifts with people's heads in my stomach or vice versa. I mean, why not give them the view? Movement should be celebrated.
"Now is moving celebrated? How much is that something that is intellectual, how much is it something that you feel, you can't divide those things. So we had those concepts.
"There were the Metabolists in Japan who were working, there was Archigram in England. I went to school with Peter Cook in the Archigram movement. And all those were definitely influences.
"The piazza in Siena. I don't think we'd go to look at the piazza in Siena, I think we didn't even realise we'd done a piazza sloping a bit like Siena until we did it. But of course, in our minds, Siena must have been there and many other wonderful Italian piazzas.
"The whole idea of Pompidou was that it is a place for the meeting of all people. And the success of it was that the French took it over and it was the most visited building certainly in Europe."
Read the rest here:
Woman "hit me on the head with her umbrella" says Richard Rogers - Dezeen
- NBC Has a Huge Opportunity with Law & Order: SVU's 25th Season - CBR - Comic Book Resources - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- Seeding a gay community in LA, the gay liberation revolution - Los Angeles Blade - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- Britney Spears's 'Baby One More Time' music video debuted on ... - Yahoo Entertainment - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- 13 Of The Greatest And Most Famous Britpop Bands - Hello Music Theory - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- The top advertising campaigns of 2023 according to Australian ... - AdNews - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- The 25 Best New Movies Streaming in November 2023 - TheWrap - November 30th, 2023 [November 30th, 2023]
- Jets' Aaron Rodgers 'attacking' rehab, eyes return this season - WABC-TV - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- ESG counteroffensive is missing big guns - POLITICO - POLITICO - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- The increasingly radical climate movement, explained - Vox.com - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Imani Winds inspires with recital celebrating composers of color at ... - EarRelevant - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- The Super Models Tells the Story of the Original Fashion Influencers - AnOther Magazine - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- What constitutes a master? Don't ask Jann Wenner The Daily ... - Daily Free Press - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- The Conviviality of Ivan Illich (Part I) | by O.G. Rose | Oct, 2023 ... - Medium - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- SickKids unveils more future-focused VS campaign to match new ... - The Message - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Top 6 Iconic Classic Rock Bands of the '60s - American Songwriter - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Brent Harold: The renaissance of union logic - Arizona Daily Star - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- German bishops conclude tense gathering with all eyes on Synod ... - Catholic World Report - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Slasher Saturdays: The Hills Have Eyes (1977) Vs. The Hills Have ... - Horror Obsessive - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Listen to Scott Drebit Discuss His New Book A CUT BELOW: A ... - Daily Dead - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Whitney Houston Hairstyles: Tribute to Her Unparalleled Elegance - PINKVILLA - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Frosted Lipstick, Chunky Highlights & Thick Eyeliner: Every Beauty ... - New Zealand Herald - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- From Alphas To Betas: Science Says There Are Three Types Of ... - Evie Magazine - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Russell Brand is a product of the horrifically misogynistic noughties - Prospect Magazine - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- The Enduring Magic of Lorde's Pure Heroine and HAIM's Days Are ... - Paste Magazine - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Climate activists: How far is too far in raising the climate alarm? - Daily Maverick - October 3rd, 2023 [October 3rd, 2023]
- Pride Anthems at WHBPAC June 2nd at 8PM - Hamptons.com - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- The illuminating influence of Eric Huntley - Peoples Dispatch - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- Want Sofia Richie Style? Try These Cheap Nordstrom Finds - Who What Wear - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- What will Saudi-Iran rapprochement mean for the Palestinians? - +972 Magazine - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- EU as Arbiter of Ideological Elegance? The European Conservative - The European Conservative - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- Catholic theology yesterday and today: A Thomist's response to Dr ... - Catholic World Report - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- Andy Warhol exhibition coming to College of DuPage - Chicago Tribune - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- COVER STORY | Arlo Parks Embraces the Intimacy of Aliveness - Paste Magazine - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- The Number Ones: The Black Eyed Peas' Boom Boom Pow - Stereogum - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- 7 First-time ASTRA Exhibitors You Don't Want to Miss This June - Gifts & Decorative Accessories - May 28th, 2023 [May 28th, 2023]
- Curator Lesley Lokko on the Venice Architecture Biennale: 'It's about ... - Financial Times - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- German revolution of 1848: A precursor to today's democracy - DW (English) - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- The Hoxton, Lloyd Amsterdam to open 21st August 2023 - Hospitality Net - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Ruin America? Joe Manchin is just getting started. | Will Bunch ... - The Philadelphia Inquirer - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- How the MTV logo captured the creative spirit of the 1980s - Creative Bloq - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- I give up I cant do that: The song that made David Crosby want to quit music - Far Out Magazine - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- How We Loved and Lost the Hot Girl Summer - The Swaddle - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- 5 Laid Back Essentials From Faherty Prove The Hype - Fatherly - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- 'How to Blow Up a Pipeline' director Daniel Goldhaber explains the ... - The Real News Network - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- The Totally Rockin' History of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem - Collider - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Was The Hunger Games Renaissance Planned All Along? - GameRant - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Michael J. Fox Looks Back on Hollywood Triumphs, Setbacks and Why Parkinsons Is the Gift That Keeps on Taking - Variety - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- It's Raining Ramen! A Brief History of Jewish Asian Fusion - Aish - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Ted Weber's Wesleyan Political Theology - Juicy Ecumenism - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- What do the British Royals and Cleopatra have in common? - Firstpost - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Pakistan Army won't bounce back easily this time. Imran Khan ... - ThePrint - May 18th, 2023 [May 18th, 2023]
- Five years since #MeToo, Tarana Burke is looking beyond the hashtag - Yahoo News - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- After Florence Pugh Freed The Nipple, Olivia Wilde Supported The Movement On New Magazine Cover - CinemaBlend - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- Barbara Kay: The Movement to Normalize Pedophilia Hits a Roadblock, but We Mustn't Let Our Guard Down - The Epoch Times - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- Is it Time to Decolonize Global Health Data? - Research Blog - Duke University - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- Claire Foy Doesnt Think Women Talking Could Have Been Made Before #MeToo - Yahoo Entertainment - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- Can the Congress rewrite its chronicle of a death foretold? - Scroll.in - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- We need a strong nationalist as a president - Daily Sun - October 15th, 2022 [October 15th, 2022]
- The 19th Century Movement to Canonize Columbus - Catholic Exchange - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Audemars Piguet toasts 50 years of Royal Oak with new watches, book - New York Post - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Claire Foy Doesn't Think 'Women Talking' Could Have Been Made Before #MeToo - Yahoo! Voices - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Best Bets: 6 nights of live music at Wussow's and more - Duluth News Tribune - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Five Burning Questions: Bad Bunny Spends a 13th Week at No. 1 With Un Verano Sin Ti - Billboard - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- San Diego artist uses creativity to uplift Black culture and 'determine how we are seen' - The San Diego Union-Tribune - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- The Premier League at thirty - what should it sound like next? - Broadcast - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Steve Braunias on Peter Ellis case: 'Moral panic, contaminated evidence and an innocent ghost' - New Zealand Herald - October 13th, 2022 [October 13th, 2022]
- Constituency Statutes: The Overlooked Predecessor to the ESG Movement - JD Supra - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- 10 books to add to your reading list in October 2022 - Los Angeles Times - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- The Multiple Religions Coexisting Within the Catholic Church - Crisis Magazine - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- 2023 Oscar Predictions The Rules of the Game - Awards Daily - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- Kathy Sheridan: Brace yourselves for where Giorgia Meloni and Italy end up - The Irish Times - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- The rise and fall of Sir Philip Green, the retail king who fell from grace - Evening Standard - October 2nd, 2022 [October 2nd, 2022]
- The lying flat movement standing in the way of China ... - Brookings - September 29th, 2022 [September 29th, 2022]
- Namwali Serpell Distills the Disorienting Experience of Grief in 'The Furrows' - Shondaland.com - September 29th, 2022 [September 29th, 2022]
- Dance & House Music Ruled the Summer. What Now? - Complex - September 29th, 2022 [September 29th, 2022]
- It is time to back a new party in the elections - Morning Star Online - September 29th, 2022 [September 29th, 2022]
- The empty feminism of Dont Worry Darling - The Guardian - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- Sunburn The morning read of what's hot in Florida politics 9.26.22 - Florida Politics - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- GOP candidate Trevor Lee ran a secret Twitter account that attacked LGBTQ people and Utah Gov. Cox. Now he's been rebuked by Republican leadership. -... - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]
- Peeling Back the Slasher-Inspired Look of HBO Maxs Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin with Cinematographer Anka Malatynska - Dread Central - September 27th, 2022 [September 27th, 2022]