{"id":203642,"date":"2017-07-05T09:15:37","date_gmt":"2017-07-05T13:15:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/gordon-hayward-the-best-jazz-wing-player-of-all-time-not-what-the-numbers-say-slc-dunk\/"},"modified":"2017-07-05T09:15:37","modified_gmt":"2017-07-05T13:15:37","slug":"gordon-hayward-the-best-jazz-wing-player-of-all-time-not-what-the-numbers-say-slc-dunk","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/mind-uploading\/gordon-hayward-the-best-jazz-wing-player-of-all-time-not-what-the-numbers-say-slc-dunk\/","title":{"rendered":"Gordon Hayward the best Jazz wing player of all time? Not what the numbers say. &#8211; SLC Dunk"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p>    So we start day one without Gordon    Hayward, how will we ever recover from his loss? I think    the Utah    Jazz are going to be fine in the long run. They may not    look fine from the jump, but its going to work out with the    gaggle of younger guards and wings who will be the primary    beneficiaries of all of these extra meaningful minutes.  <\/p>\n<p>    Im not disappointed that Gordon excised his choice to pick    where in the world he lives. I am disappointed that if he had a    2k word blog post in the chamber, why didnt he make this news    come out sooner instead of waiting for all these small forward    free agents to be sent to other teams while Utah was left    holding onto a massive cap hold and couldnt make any moves.    Im also not a huge fan of the timeline of how things went down    yesterday either - with the leak actually being what    precipitated any news from coming out. The denials werent    great either as in the pit of our collective stomachs we felt    that Gordon was gone, in mind and spirit, if not yet body.  <\/p>\n<p>    However, its not the end of the world. If anything Im more    disappointed that the Utah Jazz had to accommodate him so much    after all the special treatment he received. He didnt get to    start right off the bat and play big minutes as a rookie, but    he was a bigger part of the rotation than Derrick    Favors (the #3 pick of that same 2010 Draft class). He was    the only one out of the Favors, Enes    Kanter (#3, 2011), Alec    Burks (#12, 2011) group that had a regular role in the    roster for much of their rookie contract.  <\/p>\n<p>    The marketing department featured him, the sales department    sold him, and the in-house PR \/ broadcasting \/ propaganda    division adored him. They fawned over him like he was an over    the hill veteran who signed on to play ahead of a guy on a    rookie deal. All of this reached a crescendo in the days    leading up to July 1st. The #Hayday thing, their radio guys    suggesting that he could be the best wing player ever in    franchise history. Or that he would one day have a statue in    front of the Delta Center EnergySolutions Arena    Vivint Smart Home Arena Aunt Viv  that was the last    straw for me.  <\/p>\n<p>    How dare the Jazz own propaganda wing forget their own    history? Gordon Hayward? Up there with John and Karl? Really?    Moreover, this became a personal project for me over the next    few days and I researched every wing player in New Orleans \/    Utah Jazz history. And the statement is entirely baseless and    ludicrous.  <\/p>\n<p>    Gordon Hayward, who has four total playoff wins to his credit,    all in the first round, is the best wing in franchise history?    Gordon Hayward, who was the first option for four straight    years and got over 20 ppg just once, is the best wing in    franchise history? He didnt have to defend Michael Jordan in    the NBA    Finals. He didnt have to carry a team of some of the worst    talented Jazzmen ever. He didnt have to face triple teams on    the regular, as a wing player.  <\/p>\n<p>    Even thinking about it again makes me upset at all the sucking    up that went his way for the last two seasons - two seasons of    development hijacked by trying to convince a guy that he should    give us a chance when hes a free agent? This isnt the way    Jerry    Sloan and Frank Layden would have handled it. This is not    Larry H. Millers team anymore if that trade-off is made.  <\/p>\n<p>    Utah earned every single one of those draft picks. They are    assets to be used, but back in the day some of the best players    to play for the team were draft picks that turned into Jazzmen.    Now were throwing away lottery picks in order to keep Hayward    happy? Can you list all of the lotto picks John and Karl played    with? You go to the NBA Finals with Adam Keefe being the only    other lotto pick, Gordon. Show us that youre really the best    wing in franchise history?  <\/p>\n<p>    Pathetic.  <\/p>\n<p>    Lets actually look at the numbers and judge for ourselves what    his legacy in a Jazz jersey is. This data comes from the    database over at basketball-reference.com    - and I trust them implicitly.  <\/p>\n<p>    In regards to the time put in, and the simple metrics of what    shows up in the box score - a few wings right off the bat have    been much more productive on the court. A few of them have put    in more time as well, and been a much more visible part of Jazz    history, especially in the NBA Playoffs. Just    in minutes alone we see Hayward is between Jeff    Hornacek and Matt Harpring. Thats probably where his    actual legacy lies as well.  <\/p>\n<p>    Career Utah Jazz per game averages (regular season and playoffs    combined):  <\/p>\n<p>    Yeah, I dont see how a 15 \/ 4 \/ 3 \/ 1 guy is the best this    great franchise has to offer. He was the best player on some of    the worst teams weve seen though. So theres that. His peak is    more similar to Kendall    Gill (with the New Jersey Nets)    than it was with the actual Hall of Famers. Adrian Dantley    (rounding up) averaged 30 ppg in four straight seasons. And he    still added 3 apg to his 30 ppg and 6 rpg over his entire Jazz    career. Pete Maravich was the do it all star for this early    franchise. His 25 \/ 4 \/ 6 \/ 1 is also better.  <\/p>\n<p>    Ah! But both of these guys didnt start their career with the    team, nor did theirs end with the Jazz either. So to be the    best you have to spend all of your career with the team? What    about Darrell Griffith, his 16 \/ 3 \/ 2 \/ 1 is pretty similar to    Hayward - but Griff was Rookie of the Year, was in the Slam    Dunk contest, and actually won games in the NBA Playoffs. One    rpg and one apg dont make Hayward better than Dr. Dunkenstein.  <\/p>\n<p>    If were expanding it to guys who were Jazzmen for parts of    their careers you have to give it up to Bryon Russell, Jeff    Hornacek, and Andrei    Kirilenko as well. B-Russ had the hardest job of any Jazz    wing. Horny turned a 2nd round team into an NBA Finals team.    AK-47 was just better than Hayward, period. But got none of the    love from the team that Gordon did. (2nd quarter time out    ceremony? Not even a half-time ceremony?)  <\/p>\n<p>    Note: I have the data for per 36 minutes and analytics as well,    but I have been getting errors on uploading the table for the    past 10 minutes. I think this post has too much data in it, and    its not allowing it to happen. So Im not going to go into the    deep stuff. But I will say that Hayward doesnt look like the    best wing ever in either dataset. He wasnt the most efficient    player per 36, with guys like John Drew, Nate Williams,        Donyell Marshall, and even Allan Bristow coming ahead of    him.  <\/p>\n<p>    Part of that is pace related, and just flat out ability.    Hayward worked hard on his game to be a very good player. But    hes not the best that ever was. Hes just the one from the    vine \/ instagram generation.  <\/p>\n<p>    He has a three point shot, and many of these guys from the 70s    and 80s did not. But skill development is cumulative. Today we    have power forwards learning more difficult dribbling drills    than guards from back in the day. Everyone is shooting from    three, and back then there wasnt even a three point line for    some of the players in this data set. Skills are cumulative.    Gordon Hayward has a lot of them. Thats a product of his era.    Its not all on him.  <\/p>\n<p>    And the mantle of best Wing player ever isnt either. He didnt    lead a team of nobodies to near immortality like Andrei did. He    didnt destroy the league like Pistol Pete or AD did. He didnt    bring the team to the cusp of a championship like Horny did.    Even as a second or third banana, what he apparently wants, he    didnt do it quite like Jeff Malone or Darrell Griffith.  <\/p>\n<p>    Is Hayward right now one of the best players in the NBA?    Absolutely. Was he one of the best players on last years 51    win team? Yes. Did he score big in three playoff games? Yes he    did.  <\/p>\n<p>    Is his departure going to wreck the team? No more than his    inclusion in it changed the history books of the franchise.  <\/p>\n<p>    Goodbye Hayward. Thank you for being so precious for so long.    Hopefully now everyone and stop acting like you were better    than you actually were. The numbers, especially the analytics,    suggest that you were a generalist - not a specialist. You were    vanilla in a whole store full of more colorful and memorable    flavors.  <\/p>\n<p><!-- Auto Generated --><\/p>\n<p>Follow this link:<\/p>\n<p><a target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https:\/\/www.slcdunk.com\/research-statistics-analytics\/2017\/7\/5\/15921306\/nba-free-agency-2017-gordon-hayward-boston-celtics-utah-jazz-pete-maravich-adrian-dantley-best-wing\" title=\"Gordon Hayward the best Jazz wing player of all time? Not what the numbers say. - SLC Dunk\">Gordon Hayward the best Jazz wing player of all time? Not what the numbers say. - SLC Dunk<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p> So we start day one without Gordon Hayward, how will we ever recover from his loss? I think the Utah Jazz are going to be fine in the long run.  <a href=\"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/mind-uploading\/gordon-hayward-the-best-jazz-wing-player-of-all-time-not-what-the-numbers-say-slc-dunk\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[187745],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-203642","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-mind-uploading"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/203642"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=203642"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/203642\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=203642"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=203642"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=203642"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}