{"id":1127303,"date":"2024-07-21T17:03:04","date_gmt":"2024-07-21T21:03:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/uncategorized\/could-ukrainians-ever-trust-a-putin-peace-deal-the-spectator\/"},"modified":"2024-07-21T17:03:04","modified_gmt":"2024-07-21T21:03:04","slug":"could-ukrainians-ever-trust-a-putin-peace-deal-the-spectator","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/putin\/could-ukrainians-ever-trust-a-putin-peace-deal-the-spectator\/","title":{"rendered":"Could Ukrainians ever trust a Putin peace deal? &#8211; The Spectator"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p>    Last week at the Buxton International Festival I joined a big    audience for an onstage interview with Anna Reid. Shes a    writer who specialises in Eastern European history, was once    the Economist magazines correspondent in Ukraine, and    made her name with a brilliant book, Borderland, which    was both a portrait, a history and an appreciation of that    country long before it entered the western public    consciousness. Its still worth reading today.  <\/p>\n<p>    But at Buxton she was introducing her latest book, A Nasty    Little War: the Western Intervention into the Russian Civil    War, which opened the eyes of many in the audience    (including me) to an almost forgotten but serious and grisly    conflict straddling the end of the first world war. The Allies,    led by Britain and France and including the United States,    tried to snuff out Lenins Marxist ascendency. The adventure    was a military disaster (the White Russian forces, which we    supported, being incapable of seizing control) and a political    embarrassment.  <\/p>\n<p>        The hatred, rage and distrust Ukrainians feel towards        Putins Russia is impossible to overstate      <\/p>\n<p>    This is perhaps why I (and perhaps you?) had never heard of    this war. Won or lost, we British are inclined to forget    conflicts (the Boer War? The whole of Irish history) that were    not our finest hours. But Reid had wider and deeper thoughts to    convey, too, about Russian history and Russias world view    today. She was asked, of course, about the present Ukraine war,    and over a drink with her afterwards I pursued this. What kind    of a peace was achievable?  <\/p>\n<p>    Annas is not a crudely death-or-glory view but her love for    Ukraine is strong and her sympathy with the Ukrainian cause is    total; its fair to say she doubts an enduring peace is    achievable while Vladimir Putin is in charge. Whatever the    terms of a deal (she thinks), Putin could not be trusted to    honour them. Thats a view Ive encountered very widely in    Britain, and I encountered it too when I was in Ukraine for the    Times earlier this year. The hatred, rage and distrust    Ukrainians feel towards Putins Russia is impossible to    overstate. Many find it impossible to contemplate any    settlement with him and believe, as I think Reid does, that    whatever its terms, he would sooner or later break them and    come back for more.  <\/p>\n<p>    With the greatest of respect for Reids superior knowledge and    her deep understanding of the mentalities on both sides of this    conflict, I disagree. Probably the time has not yet arrived for    western leaders to be talking openly about a settlement  and    were a settlement finally to be agreed, its entirely possible    that Putin might later try to wriggle out of it. But I think    talk of absolute victory and the crushing and presumably    removal of Putin may be unrealistic and  worse  dangerous.    Animals are at their most dangerous when cornered.  <\/p>\n<p>    As Ive argued on these pages before, there will in the end    have to be an armistice, and there will have to be terms. If    not, what  from the comfort and security of our own armchairs     are we saying? That this war must continue until Putin is run    into the ground and destined for conviction at a war-crimes    tribunal, and Russia produces a government more to our taste?    Is this realistic? Is the humiliation of the Russian people who    have been persuaded (by lies, but lies they believe) of the    justice of their cause really in the interests of international    stability? Will Ukraine thereafter be the more secure, with its    great neighbour still bruised and angry?  <\/p>\n<p>    Its true that we pursued Hitler to his death, but he did not    possess nuclear weapons, and the Allies were content and ready    to administer Germany after removing him; but we left the    Emperor Hirohito in post after the Japanese surrender, judging    (correctly) that he could prove a stabilising force: we did not    prosecute him for war crimes. To leave Putin no exit save by    overthrow, humiliation and dishonour risks prolonging a war in    which hundreds of thousands have died on both sides and    destabilising Volodymyr Zelenskys position when he begins to    run out of men willing to die in the trenches; while Ukraines    post-victory future would be burdened by administering    territory in the east, and also Crimea, millions among whose    Russian-speaking populations remain sympathetic to Moscow.  <\/p>\n<p>    I just dont see it. So I have a confession to make. I dont    think Donald Trumps boast that he could make a deal with Putin    is implausible. This gives rise to two questions. First, what    kind of a deal? And secondly, can we be confident Putin would    honour it?  <\/p>\n<p>    The deal would be land-for-peace. How much of the east this    would include would be up for negotiation, but it would    probably have to include Crimea, strategically vital to    Russias Black Sea fleet, and not historically part of Ukraine    anyway. I do believe many Ukrainians are reconciled to letting    Crimea go, if this brought lasting peace and security. Which    bring us to the more difficult question. Could Ukraine    thereafter trust Putin?  <\/p>\n<p>    Of course not. Hes a fantasist and a liar, with a passionate    belief (however crazy) in the nobility of his cause. So any    deal would have to be accompanied by western military    guarantees to uphold the borders of the new, somewhat shrunken,    Ukraine. Such guarantees would have to be the bedrock of the    deal, and framed in terms so clear and strong as to make them    believable both to Ukrainians and to the Kremlin. Washington    and the other members of Nato would have to be profoundly and    publicly committed to the upholding of the deal, if necessary    by force.  <\/p>\n<p>    I believe the reason any land-for-peace deal has not yet    commended itself to most Ukrainians is that they dont believe    it would stick. If they did, if they could foresee their    country permanently entering the western sphere of influence,    close to (or even in) the EU, their security underwritten by    (if not as members of) the Nato Alliance, I think they would    take an offer like this. And, though it sticks in my throat to    say this, Trump might be the president to make it.  <\/p>\n<p><!-- Auto Generated --><\/p>\n<p>Original post: <\/p>\n<p><a target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.spectator.co.uk\/article\/could-ukrainians-ever-trust-a-putin-peace-deal\/\" title=\"Could Ukrainians ever trust a Putin peace deal? - The Spectator\">Could Ukrainians ever trust a Putin peace deal? - The Spectator<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p> Last week at the Buxton International Festival I joined a big audience for an onstage interview with Anna Reid. Shes a writer who specialises in Eastern European history, was once the Economist magazines correspondent in Ukraine, and made her name with a brilliant book, Borderland, which was both a portrait, a history and an appreciation of that country long before it entered the western public consciousness <a href=\"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/putin\/could-ukrainians-ever-trust-a-putin-peace-deal-the-spectator\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[921047],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1127303","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-putin"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1127303"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1127303"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1127303\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1127303"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1127303"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/prometheism-transhumanism-posthumanism\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1127303"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}