{"id":212703,"date":"2017-03-02T11:53:00","date_gmt":"2017-03-02T16:53:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/uncategorized\/david-warneke-own-an-offshore-trust-after-budget-2017-get-advice-quick-or-pay-big-fines-biznews.php"},"modified":"2017-03-02T11:53:00","modified_gmt":"2017-03-02T16:53:00","slug":"david-warneke-own-an-offshore-trust-after-budget-2017-get-advice-quick-or-pay-big-fines-biznews","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/offshore\/david-warneke-own-an-offshore-trust-after-budget-2017-get-advice-quick-or-pay-big-fines-biznews.php","title":{"rendered":"David Warneke: Own an offshore trust? After Budget 2017 get advice quick  or pay big fines &#8211; BizNews"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p>    Just     when wealthy South Africans thought theyd absorbed all the    blows, hidden in the     fine print of SAs Budget 2017 was a bombshell that is    about to hit creators of offshore trusts really hard.     BDOs David Warneke explains the SARS version of a poison    pill which adds significantly to the risks of those who are    involved with offshore trusts. And it goes way beyond the    recent legislation on transfer pricing.  Alec Hogg  <\/p>\n<p>    This special podcast is brought to you by BDO, whose David    Warneke joins us now on the line from Cape Town. David, good to    talk to you. There was a lot in the budget for people like    yourself to digest, but one of the shocks     you wrote on BizNews this week was the taxation of offshore    trusts. Now, how prevalent are offshore trusts among South    Africans?  <\/p>\n<p>    I think its fair to say that a lot of wealthy South    Africans have offshore trusts. I dont have an exact number for    you, but I think it is quite prevalent within South Africa,    thats my impression, not nearly as prevalent (I dare say) as    local trusts, but certainly, there are a good number of wealthy    South African families that have offshore trusts.  <\/p>\n<p>    What would the incentive be to have a structure like    that?  <\/p>\n<p>    Its quite a good    question, actually, because its not as straight-forward as it    seems from the point of view that its not simply a question of    that a South African residents can set up an offshore trust in    a place like Mauritius or wherever it is, which would then hold    shares in a company (typically, thats the way that the    structure works) and do investments through the company. The    basic tax problem that arises, (which I dont know if anybody    out there appreciates), is that we have transfer pricing    legislation in our Income Tax Act. In other words, the way of    transferring those assets into a trust would typically be by    way of the offshore allowances, assuming it was all done    legally (and hopefully, it is), would be by way of using the    offshore investment allowance.  <\/p>\n<p>    Then the question is how do you divest yourself of the    money that youre putting into the trust and normally what    happens then is people dont donate it to those trusts because    there is a donations tax implication. Normally what happens is    that they make a loan, they advance a loan to the trust.    Usually they end up being connected persons in relation to the    trust from an income tax point of view. Thats where the    problem comes in because youve got this Transfer Pricing    Legislation that says if you have a transaction between a    resident and a non-resident, you are connected personally with    the sign in the Act, in relation to one another, that the    transaction must be on arms length terms and conditions and if    its not, then its deemed to be an arms length terms and    conditions.  <\/p>\n<p>    In this type of situation the trick is really that loan    thats made interest-free is actually deemed to be interest    bearing as an arms length interest rate and that interest is    supposed to then be declared by the South African lender in    their tax return. Thats the problem and I think what often has    happened is that people dont know about that or they    conveniently overlook it and therefore, that interest ends up    not being charged, which would obviously undermine the tax    effectiveness of the whole scheme.  <\/p>\n<p>    David, just so that I can understand it, maybe from a    practical perspective, if as a wealthy South African you have    an offshore trust and you get all the approvals from the    exchange control for R10m for arguments sake and that trust    then invests in equities in other parts of the world, at this    point, is it necessary to charge interest or for that trust to    pay interest to the South African taxpayer who has actually set    it up?  <\/p>\n<p>    Yes, provided that the taxpayer or that person that set    it up or any of his relatives or any connected person in    relation to him is a beneficiary of the trust, which invariably    is the case because one would set it up such that your    immediate family would be discretionary beneficiaries usually,    of such a trust. In that case, they are connected persons, the    trust is connected in relation to you, or the person setting it    up and therefore, if lower than an arms length interest rate    is charged on the loan and if the money does go in as a loan as    opposed to a donation, for example, then the interest is deemed    to accrue to you, whether youve charged it or not, an arms    length rate of interest.  <\/p>\n<p>    How high is that, what rate of interest is that?  <\/p>\n<p>    The enquiry would really be, at what rate could the trust    have borrowed from an external, unconnected third party such as    the bank, for example, on the strength of this balance sheet    and that would then be the rate.  <\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p>    The fact being that most people, I guess would not be    charging the trust interest, because they dont want to    increase their tax liability, but they could be fined for that    emission in future or now.  <\/p>\n<p>    That is the problem with that and yes, I think many    people, as I say, dont realise that that provision is listed    and they just dont charge interest and they go about their    business, but actually theres definitely a tax issue    there.  <\/p>\n<p>    What else was there in this budget that would worry you    about offshore trusts?  <\/p>\n<p>    In this particular budget, if you look at the statement    made regarding offshore trusts, it was particularly that    structure that Ive just described now, where you have an    offshore trust which holds shares in an offshore company. For    example, lets just use Mauritius again as an example, we have    a trust set up there and we have a company set up there and the    trust holds all the shares in that company and South African    residents have set that trust up with that structure. The    announcement that was made, was not entirely clear, but what it    seems to be saying is that there is going to be an attempt to    deem the company that is held by the trusts to be whats called    a controlled foreign company from the South African tax point    of view.  <\/p>\n<p>    Basically with the controlled foreign company then, in    proportion to whatever their participation rights are in the    company, South African residents would have to include the net    income of that underlying company in their own income tax    returns, almost as if they held the shares in that company    directly and you were looking straight through the company at    whatever its underlying income was. So, its difficult to see    how thats practically going to work because obviously those    individuals who might have set that structure up, dont    actually hold the shares in the company, the offshore trust    holds the shares in the company.  <\/p>\n<p>    In what proportion, if you have, lets say, four or five    beneficiaries of that offshore trust to South Africa, does one    then just say, Well, 25 percent of that is deemed to an    individual ones income, 25 individual two, three, four, or is    one just looking at the founder of that trust including 100    percent of the underlying company in that persons income? Its    really not clear how that would be brought about.  <\/p>\n<p>    What does seem to be clear is that the advantage that an    offshore trust might have had is now being eliminated. Are    there still any advantages in having this structure if these    proposals go ahead?  <\/p>\n<p>    Yes it might work for somebody who went overseas, worked    overseas for a number of years, and wasnt for a while a South    African tax resident, then came back into South Africa, but    before they came back they set the structure up. Possibly it    might work for them. I think transfer pricing, in any case,    would be a problem. I think even there, if theres a loan    outstanding between a South African resident and a    non-resident, one could argue that the transfer pricing    provisions would still deem a market-related interest rate to    apply. I think that if SARS were to work with the provisions in    the Act that are already there, namely the Transfer Pricing    Provisions, I think thats the main one in Section 7.8, if they    were to work with those, theres actually enough to make    foreign trust arrangements, certainly on the whole, not    beneficial from a South African tax point of view.  <\/p>\n<p>      Read also:Reasons      to be afraid  very afraid  if youre hiding money offshore:      MPs warn South Africans    <\/p>\n<p>    Alec, I might just add, sometimes what people do is that    loan to the trust, they denominate it in a hard currency, where    the rates of interest then are argued to be very low, in other    words, an arms length, its an interest on a US Dollar    denominated loan between the South African resident and an    offshore trust might carry a fractional, a very low rate of    interest so that the transfer pricing provisions at the moment,    one might think that its still worth having that structure and    suffering the tax on that rate of interest when you convert it    back into Rands because its quite low to begin with, but one    must also remember that over the time, the rates of interest    are subject to fluctuation obviously, they might well go up.    Theyre low at the moment, but theyre unlikely to always be    that.  <\/p>\n<p>    Also then by having that loan denominated in hard    currency, ones actually creating a future estate duty problem    because that loan is an asset in that lenders estate for    estate duty purposes and one would then have to convert that on    their death back into Rands for purposes of calculation of    estate duty, which then might make the estate duty liability    worse down the line by having it in hard currency.  <\/p>\n<p>    Whats the motivation behind all of this? Its pretty    complex stuff, but where are the tax authorities, whats    driving their intention?  <\/p>\n<p>    Well, I think that tax authorities worldwide have been    taking aim at offshore trusts. We have that situation in    Europe, in America, and in Canada. They just dont like    residents to be beneficiaries or participants in offshore trust    arrangements, I think largely because despite having transfer    pricing and other legislation in place, what they have found is    that people simply arent compliant with that legislation and    historically its been difficult to get information on those    offshore trusts, so that if people dont declare those    interests in the offshore trusts then the revenue authorities    are none-the-wiser.  <\/p>\n<p>    Historically, thats been the case. Of course, now with    the common reporting standards coming into play and worldwide    transparency being enhanced, information sharing between    revenue authorities and so on, I think that those days are    largely over, but I think that its fair to say that its not    just a South African peculiarity, I think largely offshore    jurisdictions as well, take a dim view of trusts in the    developed world.  <\/p>\n<p>    Your advice to someone who does have an offshore trust, get    some expert consultancy quick.  <\/p>\n<p>    Well, for sure, yes, one does need to review that. One of    the recommendations of the Davis Tax Committee as well, in    their final report on the state duty, which also included    trusts, was that SARS should very comprehensively investigate    all offshore trust arrangements and I think that the reasoning    behind that is that if one digs down into it, you might well    find that its not properly set up. For example, one of the    issues is that for the offshore trust arrangements to have any    benefits at all, it would have to be a non- South African tax    resident trust to begin with. For example, the usual thing is    that you have an offshore trust company doing the management of    the trust and you have trustees who are all offshore, you might    have a South African one.  <\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p>    The problem though is, from an income tax point of view,    our definition of resident in the case of a trust would be    basically, if the effective management of that trust is    offshore as opposed to in South Africa. Then what would happen    would be that one would have to look at where are the actual    decisions regarding largely the strategic management of the    trust are actually formulated, are they formulated offshore or    are they formulated onshore and one might well find that    although one almost has the veneer of these offshore trustees    taking the decisions and minuting them and all the rest of it,    that the actual underlying decisions are really made by the    founder here in South Africa who just tells them basically what    to do, in which case the trace of effective management of that    trust is actually South Africa, which means that the offshore    trust is actually a South African resident trust thats, for    tax purposes, not actually a non-resident to begin with.  <\/p>\n<p>    So yes, I do agree with you. I think that people with    those structures really need to have them reviewed as a matter    of urgency to make sure that all the boxes are ticked and in    terms of what they perceive the arrangement to be, that that    does in fact hold water to begin with and then following on    from that, even if the arrangement is what its purported to    be, what are really the South African tax consequences of those    arrangements, taking into account the transfer pricing    provisions in Section 7.8, deemed income provisions and the    other provisions in our Income Tax Act.  <\/p>\n<p>    Well, not a very good budget for those who hold offshore    trusts, David Warneke informing us there and this special    podcast was brought to you by BDO.  <\/p>\n<p><!-- Auto Generated --><\/p>\n<p>See the original post here: <\/p>\n<p><a target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https:\/\/www.biznews.com\/budget\/budget-2017\/2017\/03\/02\/offshore-trust-budget-tax\/\" title=\"David Warneke: Own an offshore trust? After Budget 2017 get advice quick  or pay big fines - BizNews\">David Warneke: Own an offshore trust? After Budget 2017 get advice quick  or pay big fines - BizNews<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p> Just when wealthy South Africans thought theyd absorbed all the blows, hidden in the fine print of SAs Budget 2017 was a bombshell that is about to hit creators of offshore trusts really hard. BDOs David Warneke explains the SARS version of a poison pill which adds significantly to the risks of those who are involved with offshore trusts. And it goes way beyond the recent legislation on transfer pricing.  <a href=\"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/offshore\/david-warneke-own-an-offshore-trust-after-budget-2017-get-advice-quick-or-pay-big-fines-biznews.php\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"limit_modified_date":"","last_modified_date":"","_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[431655],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-212703","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-offshore"],"modified_by":null,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/212703"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=212703"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/212703\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=212703"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=212703"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=212703"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}