{"id":208148,"date":"2017-02-15T10:19:34","date_gmt":"2017-02-15T15:19:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/uncategorized\/the-fourth-amendment-at-the-border-and-beyond-a-few-thoughts-on-hernandez-v-mesa-washington-post.php"},"modified":"2017-02-15T10:19:34","modified_gmt":"2017-02-15T15:19:34","slug":"the-fourth-amendment-at-the-border-and-beyond-a-few-thoughts-on-hernandez-v-mesa-washington-post","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/fourth-amendment-2\/the-fourth-amendment-at-the-border-and-beyond-a-few-thoughts-on-hernandez-v-mesa-washington-post.php","title":{"rendered":"The Fourth Amendment at the border and beyond: A few thoughts on Hernandez v. Mesa &#8211; Washington Post"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p>    The Supreme Court will hear arguments next week in a Fourth    Amendment case, Hernandez    v. Mesa. The facts of the case are simple. At the    border that separates El Paso, Tex., from Ciudad Jurez,    Mexico, a U.S. border patrol agent named Mesa shot and killed a    Mexican citizen named Hernandez. The bullet itself crossed the    border, as Mesa was on U.S. land and Hernandez was on Mexican    land. A subsequent lawsuit was filed by Hernandezs parents, as    successors-in-interest to his estate, alleging excessive force    under the Fourth Amendment.  <\/p>\n<p>    The     cert petitionarticulated two questions to be decided:  <\/p>\n<p>      Does a formalist or functionalist analysis govern the      extraterritorial application of the Fourth Amendments      prohibition on unjustified deadly force, as applied to a      cross-border shooting of an unarmed Mexican citizen in an      enclosed area controlled by the United States?    <\/p>\n<p>      May qualified immunity be granted or denied based on      factssuch as the victims legal status unknown to the      officer at the time of the incident?    <\/p>\n<p>    When the court granted cert,     the court added a third question drafted by the court    itself: Whether the claim in this case may be asserted under    Bivens v. Six Unknown Fed. Narcotics Agents, 403 U. S. 388    (1971).  <\/p>\n<p>    Here are a few thoughts about the case.  <\/p>\n<p>    One of the most important questions for the future of the    Fourth Amendment is whether non-U.S. persons get Fourth    Amendment rights abroad. As I explained in my recent article,    The    Fourth Amendment and the Global Internet, 67 Stan. L. Rev. 28    (2015), the basic structure of what kind of Internet    surveillance is permitted hinges on the question.  <\/p>\n<p>    Under the rule of the majority opinion in    Verdugo-Urquidez  the so-called formalist approach     you get one framework with some significant uncertainties but a    lot of results settled. On the other hand, under Justice    Anthony Kennedys impracticable and anomalous test  the    so-called functional approach  no one really knows what the    Fourth Amendment would look like in the context of global    network surveillance. And because those cases come up for    litigation so rarely, it would take many years for courts to    figure out the answers (by which time the technology may have    changed anyway).  <\/p>\n<p>    From that perspective, the odd part about Hernandez v.    Mesa is that it asks the court to decide between the    formalist and functionalist approaches in a setting that    appears to implicate almost none of the real stakes of the    answer. The facts of a shooting across the border are like a    law school exam. They raise interesting questions, but the    context seems pretty idiosyncratic. In contrast, the    application of the functionalist or formalist approach has a    massive day-to-day impact on     global Internet surveillance. Its there, not in the    context of a cross-border shooting, that the Fourth Amendment    question in Hernandez seems to matter most.  <\/p>\n<p>    Hernandezs brief argues that the court can and should apply or    not apply individual parts of Fourth Amendment doctrine to    non-citizens abroad depending on whether doing so would be    impracticable or anomalous. But I dont see how this is at    all workable. As I explain in    a forthcoming article, Fourth Amendment rules are deeply    path-dependent. The rules on what is a search impact the rules    on what is reasonable, and vice versa; and they together impact    the available remedies, and the remedies have an impact on    them. In an area of law that is as exquisitely fact-sensitive    as the Fourth Amendment, I dont know how you could tell    whether a particular doctrines application would be    impracticable or anomalous. Assuming you had an empirical way    to answer that in the abstract, the answer would depend on what    the other doctrines are, and without knowing if their    application to non-citizens abroad would be impractical and    anomalous, I dont know how you could tell.  <\/p>\n<p>    Hernandez tries to avoid these problems by suggesting a very    narrow holding.     The reply brief advocates the following narrow rule: [T]he    prohibition on unjustified deadly force applies at (and just    across) the border, at least when a law-enforcement officer on    U.S. soil fires his weapon at close range. But this attempted    narrowing just makes the problem much worse. Its bad enough to    figure out how the impracticable or anomalous framework    should apply doctrine by doctrine. Hernandez seems to want to    apply it fact pattern by fact pattern, imposing some    essentially arbitrary definition of the relevant set of facts.  <\/p>\n<p>    Think closely about Hernandezs proposed rule. In his far    narrower view, the rule of extraterritorial liability    advocated for in this case would apparently apply notto    all excessive-force claims brought by non-citizens, but only to    claims of unjustified deadly force brought by them; not    outside the United States generally, but only at the specific    location of at (and just across) the border; and maybe    (although maybe not!) only to the narrower circumstance when    the U.S. officer fires his weapon at close range. The    phrasing of the question presented in the cert petition    suggests another possible limitation: Maybe it applies only to    shooting a person who is an unarmed Mexican citizen. As to    the rule that would apply to any other facts, well, hey, courts    will have to figure those out over time.  <\/p>\n<p>    That seems kind of nuts to me. If any court can pick the set of    facts over which aproposed rule of extraterritorial    applicationcontrols, the result will be that any    Ninth Circuit    lower-court judge can just pick the result he or she wants in    any case. If Judge Reinhardthas a case and wants to hold    the defendants liable, he can drawthe category of facts    in a stylized way so that application of the Fourth Amendment    doesnt seemimpracticable. If another judge wants to    rule against the plaintiffs, she can draw the category of facts    differentlyso that it does. That strikes me as really    problematic.  <\/p>\n<p>    All of which is to say that I hope the court sticks with the    majority opinion in Verdugo-Urquidez. Not only is    itrelatively clear, but alsoI    personally tend to think it isbased on apersuasive    social contract approach to rights.  <\/p>\n<p>    The Fourth Amendment issue in Hernandez is made more    interesting by a practical point: Its not clear whether other    members of the courtbeyond Kennedy agree with using    theimpracticable or anomalous test in the Fourth    Amendment context. It sometimes happens that other justices are    willing to sign on to a Kennedy opinion with reasoning that    they dont particularly agree with, if its needed to get to a    five-justice majority. But that doesnt always happen, and it    could happen either way in this case (with Kennedy applying the    impractical or anomalous test in favor of either the    petitioners or respondents). If the court reaches the merits,    it will be really interesting to see where the votes will come    out on that issue.  <\/p>\n<p>    Finally, its not at all obvious that the court will reach the    Fourth Amendment merits. The court added the Bivens    question on its own, and the     Solicitor Generals Office brief took the hint and made    that the lead argument in its brief. The Bivens issue    takes up fully 20 pages of the argument section in the    governments brief, as compared with 15 pages for the Fourth    Amendment merits and eight pages for the qualified-immunity    issue. Well have to wait and see which issue draws the    justices attention.  <\/p>\n<p>    As always, stay tuned.  <\/p>\n<p><!-- Auto Generated --><\/p>\n<p>Read the rest here:<\/p>\n<p><a target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/news\/volokh-conspiracy\/wp\/2017\/02\/14\/the-fourth-amendment-at-the-border-and-beyond-a-few-thoughts-on-hernandez-v-mesa\/\" title=\"The Fourth Amendment at the border and beyond: A few thoughts on Hernandez v. Mesa - Washington Post\">The Fourth Amendment at the border and beyond: A few thoughts on Hernandez v. Mesa - Washington Post<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p> The Supreme Court will hear arguments next week in a Fourth Amendment case, Hernandez v. Mesa <a href=\"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/fourth-amendment-2\/the-fourth-amendment-at-the-border-and-beyond-a-few-thoughts-on-hernandez-v-mesa-washington-post.php\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"limit_modified_date":"","last_modified_date":"","_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[261461],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-208148","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-fourth-amendment-2"],"modified_by":null,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/208148"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=208148"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/208148\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=208148"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=208148"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.euvolution.com\/futurist-transhuman-news-blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=208148"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}